Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2011 - 11:53pm PT
|
An intelligent person would be a commie, fascist, liberal, independent, democrat, republican, dictator, king, etc etc etc all rolled into one and use any of them according to time and circumstance where it's needed to guide the people correctly.
When those designations are used incorrectly according to time and circumstance is when all hell breaks loose.
We're in hell ......
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2011 - 12:09am PT
|
How will we know if we are fascists? Or commies? Or other things you speak of? What are the quantifiable characteristics we can point to and say "holy moly! it's here!" or "crap, I became a fascist when I wasn't even looking?
Well, it's difficult to answer because, as I said before, communism and fascism is a morphing system. But you could probably boil it down to increasing gov't intrusion and control of your personal options.
You cannot own a gun, you cannot have an abortion, you cannot use incandescant bulbs, you cannot use certain terms, etc...
|
|
Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
|
Dec 31, 2011 - 12:12am PT
|
Thanks Bluey.
|
|
Gene
climber
|
|
|
Dec 31, 2011 - 12:15am PT
|
You cannot own a gun,
You bet I can.
you cannot have an abortion,
I'm male. But I see no restrictions on abortions for folks who believe abortion is OK.
you cannot use incandescant bulbs, Bullsh#t. Using them now.
you cannot use certain terms, Like what?
etc... You got me here!
Bluey,
I admire your pit bull-headedness. You are one tenacious SOB.
Cheers,
g
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 31, 2011 - 12:31am PT
|
Hey Bluey
Good that you started a fresh thread.
Bad that you posted just a link to the offending article and directed us to find your thoughts way down pages of comments that require click throughs?
Do you ever follow peoples links and then multi-click to find comments?
You don't
I did read the article. Thing is, states like Arizona and others have gone beyond their state authority and got involved in immigration detention. That creates a danger than citizen might get rounded up for looking half-mexican without id (and maybe you could even pass for one) or that people would go rob some illegals and then turn them in to the local police, (who might be corrupt like that Sheriff Billy-Bob they just sanctioned for not responding to rapes and stuff)
Also points off for not reading your own OP Post. We all make mistakes in a big post. YOu have repeating paragraphs in there bro
So you already addressed that you're not really talking about commies, and you should know that Fascism and Communism are totally different too. So what ARE you talking about (without using words you don't mean)
peace
Karl
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Dec 31, 2011 - 12:35am PT
|
CG asks: "How will we know if we are fascists? Or commies?"
bluering sez: "Well, it's difficult to answer because, as I said before, communism and fascism is a morphing system."
To which, I repeat:
You don't. That's why the GOP's fear mongering rhetoric is so successful. No matter how obvious or clear the lack of evidence, the fear can still be instilled...'cause you never really know for sure...
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 31, 2011 - 12:39am PT
|
I will say that while you can have an abortion, own a gun, and a lot of other things, It's totally wrong that the government wants to censor the internet, claims the power to kill US citizens that it says are terrorists (but without having to prove it) and to indefinately detain foreign and US citizens that it says are terrorists or terrorist helpers (but without having to prove it)
but you're not speaking out against those things are you. You're just worried some Mexicans might get through.
Guess what, the real people benefitting from Illegal Mexican immigration are big farm owners and rich people who want cheap maids and garden help. Guess who won't go after the bosses who hire illegals so that they won't be so motivated to come here?
It ain't the democrats
Peace
Karl
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2011 - 12:42am PT
|
So you already addressed that you're not really talking about commies, and you should know that Fascism and Communism are totally different too. So what ARE you talking about (without using words you don't mean)
Gov't assuming too much control of your personal decisions. Gov't getting involved in your personal life.
Gene, what rights aren't enumerated in the Constitution to the Fed, they are left for individual states to decide.
As far as the Fed and Az border security? The state should be able to enact stautes to detain unlawful people if the Fed fails.
EDIT: Good post, Karl. I mostly agree again. Mostly...
|
|
Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
|
|
|
Dec 31, 2011 - 12:46am PT
|
Jingy, oh wise political commentator, do you have any wise words? How do you feel about Obama's policies and successes?
So we're clear which specific policies would you like the wiser of us to answer?
Which of the many successes would you like the wiser of us to reflect on?
bluw…. Read and thoroughly understand the constitution to the United States.
It is understood that you think it is being twisted (I agree it is, but not the way you claim it to be)…..
You, the republicon, who voted for buche, must have agreed to the smaller government in the wake of 9/11 when DHS was being passed through congress and being signed into law by your beloved president. They (Buche, the repuke congress, repuke senate) set about taking our rights away and you cheerlead for the who thing because you were a buchebot who repeated all the talking points of O'really, Hennesy, lampbag and schewbecky….. You called us out of line if we questioned our president, commie for raising questions about anything he did because we were able to imagine a time way off in the future when the show could be on the other foot and this BRAND NEW AGENCY THAT A SMALL GOVERNMENT REPUBLICAN CREATED might be used against Americans and not just Alkiadah and their sympathizers.
United States Department of Homeland Security
Formed November 25, 2002
Boy, its got a great name…. but strangely.. I feel no safer… Stranger still… I'm more frightened of right wing whack-o-loons.. the likes of which are in no shortage here rather than "the enemy"
Gov't assuming too much control of your personal decisions. Gov't getting involved in your personal life.
 Please blhugh….. when was the last time government told you anything? When was the last time you had an interaction with the Government. Pathetic.
Gene, what rights aren't enumerated in the Constitution to the Fed, they are left for individual states to decide.
As far as the Fed and Az border security? The state should be able to enact stautes to detain unlawful people if the Fed fails.
Blhugh… you don't project into the future when you think do you? You don't think of the history much do ya….. Shameful dude…
Quick history lesson.. America was born out of a dislike of rule by another country. We can do for ourselves they said. And on a dare, a country was formed.
With its own, extremely forward thinking (read f*#king progressive you moron) constitution and bill of rights.
Right of free speech, press, assembly and petition.
Right to keep and bear arms
Protection from unreasonable search and seizure
due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.
Trial by f*#king jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel
on and on…..
It is American to have these rights.
It is human to have human rights.
Your on most of this shite about illegals puts the labels 'us' and 'them' on everyone.
Now lets fast forward the lesson to 1900's, more and more people are streaming into the US, because of the dream, freedom…. hope.
At some point (1933) the INS was form to help with the flow of immigrants (like the ones that helped build the country, dig in the mines, and sew all the shirts)….
Now lets go forward to today… You want me to take your side in an argument that you cannot (or will not substantiate with facts: You say 'we', I hear Whites. You say 'them', I hear anyone not white (if only you could see it for what it seems very nearly to be mimicing… NAZI.
You think that progressives are commies?
I think the right wing are treading the edge between the clan and Nazi Germany, neither of which are very good places for a person like me. Mainly because free thought
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 31, 2011 - 12:52am PT
|
Sorry, Gene, I kinda illucidated that earlier but didn't expound upon it. There are many fingers in the hand of 'communism'.
Basically, it ain't called communism anymore because most Western countries roundly reject it, and the commies know this.
Now it's called a progressive movement. Just look at Obama.
Yeah man! What a friggin Pinko that drastically increased the national debt and deficit, raised taxes a bunch of times, and gave firggin amnesty to Millions of illegal wetbacks! Screw him!!!
Oh wait, Obama didn't do that, Ronald Reagan did.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128303672
But what about all this Bullshit about saving the environment and civil rights to people who aren't like us? That kinda BS that you know Obama must be for even though he never does anything.
Dang, why didn't you stop Nixon from signing the Clean Water Act and the Civil Rights Act of 1964?
Obama governs like a moderate Republican but you fools have bought the kool aid that he's some kinda radical. The only thing radical about the dude is that he continues the constitution shredding BS that Bush started
Peace
Karl
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2011 - 12:52am PT
|
Jingy, do not make the mistake that I'm a fan of DHS or the Patriot Act. Nor Bush's conduct of the wars. They would have been much shorter if I had a say.
If you go to war, you send killers, not cops. You drop bombs, not leaflets.
You do that or you don't set one f*#king foot on the ground!!
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Dec 31, 2011 - 12:55am PT
|
"Jingy, do not make the mistake that I'm a fan of DHS or the Patriot Act. Nor Bush's conduct of the wars. They would have been much shorter if I had a say."
I tell ya, the further we get from Shrub's Reign of Error, the more you guys 'come out of the closet' about what you really think.
That jackbootin' kool-aid is strong stuff, I tell ya. It takes years to wear off.
|
|
SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
|
|
|
Dec 31, 2011 - 01:01am PT
|
I think tagging every freakin' bear, shark and escaped-into-California wolf way too much government intervention. I couldn't find a grizzly in Alaska this summer that wasn't wearing some sort of bling around its neck thanks to some government agency.
Freedom for me and my furry friends....oh maybe I meant to post this over on the Friday night while drunk thread.
Ummmmm
Susan
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 31, 2011 - 01:02am PT
|
Bluey
That website isn't letting me load comments between #75 and #91. Why don't you cut and paste your comments so we have something to chew on?
peace
Karl
|
|
BooYah
Social climber
Ely, Nv
|
|
|
Dec 31, 2011 - 01:40am PT
|
This dumb, drunken ass is getting what he wants. He wants to fire you up. F*#k him. Don't play. Shut it off. He has NO power.
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
|
Dec 31, 2011 - 07:11am PT
|
Where one of the real threats to America's future is found
"Increasingly, university administrations restrict what academics can talk about. In the US post-9/11, some academics were chastised for speaking out against America’s war in Afghanistan. Trustees of the City University of New York made ‘formal denunciations’ of faculty members who criticised US foreign policy at a teach-in, and similar measures were taken against academics at the University of Texas at Austin, MIT, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. In both American and British universities there has been a proliferation of ethics committees that judge what are suitable and ‘appropriate’ areas of research for academics, and even advise teachers on the minutiae of how to communicate with their students. Durham University in England recently decreed that lecturers should obtain approval from an ethics committee if they want to give tutorials on difficult or potentially heated topics, such as abortion or euthanasia. Universities even prescribe what kind of language to use. The University of Derby, also in England, has a pretty Orwellian ‘Code of Practice for Use of Language’, which advises teachers that their ‘use of language should reflect the university’s mission and support relationships of mutual respect’. As Frank Furedi has argued on spiked, such illiberal policies are not ‘simply the handiwork of a few philistine zealots. [They are] the inexorable consequence of an academic culture that is increasingly prepared to censor itself and others.’
Then there are students. Once seen as being among the most progressive, or certainly the most open-minded members of society, today more and more of them are increasingly ban-happy, responding to controversy not by having the argument out – by ‘questioning things vigorously’, as Kaminer puts it – but by demanding censorship, silence, an end to words or images that might potentially upset fragile members of the student body.
Far from being a site of free thinking and free exchange of ideas, the university seems to have become a laboratory for new forms of censorship and conformism. ‘Kids come to college, and for the first couple of weeks of freshman year they’re in a sensitivity course, where they’re told what they’re allowed to say and what they’re not allowed to say’, says Kaminer. ‘They are subjected to thought-control programmes the minute they arrive. That is not a very good start.’
For Kaminer, this subtle but pernicious stifling of free speech on campus is bad news. Firstly because it helps to alter the way some students and teachers think, tending to make them closed-minded and fearful of challenging arguments – at institutions where openness and free debate are essential. And secondly because it denigrates the quality and level of public debate more broadly. Censorship is not only a bad rap for those who are censored: the right-wing advertisers or the Eminem record-players. It is also a bad rap for the rest of us, in the sense that genuine conflicts of views and interest are never had out and thus never resolved, and certain ideas are given authority not through public interrogation and debate but by being hand-picked and elevated as ‘correct’ by small cliques of student organisers or ethics committees. Censorship therefore encourages ignorance and conformity – a kind of medieval nodding along with the whims of authority – rather than a critical culture where ideas can be thrown around, debated, defeated, improved or pushed further."
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
|
Dec 31, 2011 - 07:14am PT
|
Another threat to America's future
"It is my job, as I see it, to combat ignorance and foster the skills and knowledge needed to produce intelligent, ethical, and productive citizens.
I see too many students who are:
•Primarily focused on their own emotions — on the primacy of their "feelings" — rather than on analysis supported by evidence.
•Uncertain what constitutes reliable evidence, thus tending to use the most easily found sources uncritically.
•Convinced that no opinion is worth more than another: All views are equal.
•Uncertain about academic honesty and what constitutes plagiarism. (I recently had a student defend herself by claiming that her paper was more than 50 percent original, so she should receive that much credit, at least.)
•Unable to follow or make a sustained argument.
•Uncertain about spelling and punctuation (and skeptical that such skills matter).
•Hostile to anything that is not directly relevant to their career goals, which are vaguely understood.
•Increasingly interested in the social and athletic above the academic, while "needing" to receive very high grades.
•Not really embarrassed at their lack of knowledge and skills.
•Certain that any academic failure is the fault of the professor rather than the student."
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
|
Dec 31, 2011 - 07:17am PT
|
A third threat that Bluering illustrates wonderfully
"Radical right-wingers psyche:
Danes for Bush hit the pavement in August 2004; just as the American Presidential campaign was beginning to heat up. The tour was timed to hit New York at the end of August at the same time as the Republican convention that would confirm George W. Bush as the Republican presidential candidate in 2004.
The two-man Danish road show of Jakob Boeskov and Mads Brugger plow their way across the United States in a camper van for a series of appointments with the right-wing grassroots of the American heartland during the weeks leading up to the Republican convention. With an air of determination they make continuous vows to do whatever they can to support the cause of making sure Bush and Cheney are around until 2008.
Their weapon of choice is a portrait of sincerity, a couple of over-the-top matching outfits, plenty of ‘Danes for Bush’ campaign paraphernalia, and a bizarre inflatable pork-sausage mascot wrapped in an American flag. Yet they steadfastly refuse to reveal that their fighting words should be taken at anything but their face value. It may all seem over the top, but so are the views espoused by hard-right republican after republican.
This is the ticket into this surreal parallel world, and Jakob and Mads never give up the deep dark secret that they themselves are anything but genuine in their purported beliefs and stated intentions. Even on their website (www.danesforbush.org), they refuse to give up the gag. Their subjects remain unguarded and uninhibited. Free to speak candidly, they do. This is the source of the genius.
A district judge in Texas feels no shame in suggesting that dropping the bomb on Baghdad would save lives – his proof: it did in Japan. They create an award and give it to him – Americans love awards. There is no counterattack attack their targets face. No moment of revelation where the purpose is revealed to the unsuspecting. They will forever remain ignorant.
Yet it is the unexpected by-product of these countless encounters with hard right-wingers during their cross-country marathon that sets Danes for Bush apart in this genre of political satire.
While it is no surprise to find groups of radical right-wingers talking the talk one would expect of radical right-wingers, what is an eye-opener is the source of the feelings of uncertainty and paranoia their targets ultimately reveal.
The talk of the right-wingers they encounter is of the hopeless tragedy of friends and neighbours murdered by random gun-violence; Vietnam as a terrifying scar – one that we see lingering disturbingly on so many psyches; and of course the deep, oftentimes wildly fanatical, religious faith used to steady so many in the face of it all. The trauma of being hit by terrorists who, from the perspective of a small-timer in the heart of America, have emerged almost mystically from some unknown evil has been the final blow. These people are visibly shaken in many of the encounters. They have felt an enormous sense of betrayal of purpose over the years, and they are stunned by it.
As we watch the Danes for Bush characters in full pantomime, Mads and Jacob meeting right-winger after right-winger, group after group; the puzzle pieces begin to fall into place. One now understands where it is the people they are meeting are coming from.
With this realisation, the disbelief that a group of such people and their radical viewpoints can exist mutates into a sort of momentary, if uneasy, forgiveness – which is not at all to say that one finds oneself agreeing with virtually anything being said.
The right-wingers are children stumbling through the unknown, ever fearful of what may lurk around the next corner, wishing for the impregnable protection.
The enemy surely lurks somewhere in the Middle East, so attack, ATTACK! What better justification? There is no time to think about it, to debate. How can you put a price on comfort, reassurance? The violent and unpredictable world must be secured.
In managing to communicate with the same group of people that John Kerry and the left wing of America were simply unable to touch, the Danes for Bush guys, if inadvertently, stumbled upon the reason why this very fear exists in the first place.
Sadly, dealing with this mess will preoccupy Americans for years to come."
And Dylan nailed it too.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!