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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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Nov 10, 2011 - 05:52pm PT
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If you are with someone less experienced you can put their rap device on the rope(s) above your device. Then when you rap off, you know he/she can't screw it up when they follow after you are down. This is the way the YMS guides do it. When you are down on the ground, you can also hold the ropes to be prepared to pull them tight to stop an out of control rap, at least that's the idea. I haven't actually tried this stop. It might be best to knot the ends of both ropes when using two ropes even when they touch the ground, in case for some bizarre reason (say you lost your grip on the small rope) one rope starts zinging through the device. If one rope goes through the device, the other rope will not hold you.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Nov 10, 2011 - 05:56pm PT
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Know how to work more friction into the system. Unusual situations can occur where you have much less friction than you're used to. Like rapping on a single, new shiny slick, thinner rope. Or you're cold and your freezing hands just can't grip the rope as usual. Or you've dropped your usual rap device. Or you've lost your main rope and you're rapping on a single 7mm.
When on rappel and surprised by low friction wrap the rope around body or the thigh. Wrapping the rope around my thigh saved my bacon once.
If you anticipate problems before starting, set up additional braking by putting another device on a sling above your usual device, perhaps a 6 carabiner brake or a carabiner wrap. Or just looping the rope thru carabiner(s) clipped to your harness could do it.
Off topic - Here's something I just tried: Out of chalk? Wood ashes work fairly well.
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micronut
Trad climber
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Nov 10, 2011 - 06:00pm PT
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I love the tales of Jim and Greg Crouch bailing off stuff deep into the nightime and teeth of a storm in the book Enduring Patagonia. I think of them every time I bail off something.
Thanks for the inspiration to stay safe Jim.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Nov 10, 2011 - 06:02pm PT
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Here's my 2 cents:
Listen to your gut and don't let a cheap or anxious partner turn your lights out. Speak out, let that bird on your shoulder be heard even if you're climbing with a more talented climber. Cheap and impatient climbers come in all ability levels.
BTW Jim D., I totally concur with your earlier piece on tips. Much wisdom here, just wish more of the younger crowd had the fortitude to read this stuff.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 10, 2011 - 06:04pm PT
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One simple and crucial act of vigilance: always inspect every part of fixed slings or ropes before you trust them, especially the parts you can't see at first glance.
+1 on that. And if the anchor happens to have rope or slings going around a tree, don't just look at the other side of the tree, but actually pull the slings away from the tree and check the side that was next to the wood. I once did that and found that what looked like an unblemished anchor was actually completly chewed up on the inside.
And a further comment on Jim's suggestion about putting the ropes in your pack on a windy day and letting them feed out as you go -- if you don't have a pack, just lap coil each rope and hang it in a sling on either side of your harness. It'll feed as you go, although you do have to pay attention.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Nov 10, 2011 - 06:06pm PT
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I have done a lot of raps with a backup piece that gets removed for the last person after the anchor seems to check out. Unfortunately, I am usually the lightest and therefore the last to go. It's always a bit nerve racking.
Yup - it sucks when youre the lightest one.
I'm always amazed by how few people have no tied off slings on their rack.
I tend to bring 2 short and 1 long tied off 9/16 slings. This way I can replace the tat on old bolts or sling a block to rap off of in an emergency.
Although I've used leaver beaners before in general I'll rap off a sling - it's not the rapping that trashes the sling but the pulling of the rope.
There's also a neat trick where if your less than 1/3 rope out you can rap off a bolt with a sling and leave NO trace. I won't detail it but it's cool.
EDIT
and I always have a little belay knife with my nut tool for tat removal.
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Nov 10, 2011 - 06:10pm PT
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I'm craving some clarification on the 'pull test':
From what I've read in this thread, it sounds like the first one down
for a single rope rap
pulls on one side of the rope to ensure it moves freely
How much pulling is needed? One or two feet?
or if it's a two rope rap
the first one down pulls on the side where the knot will be free
Again how much pulling? Just a foot or two?
Once the movement stops the last one down takes this as their cue to:
1: reorient / recenter the rap lines
2: begin their rap
Is that it? If not please clarify / correct
thanks!
---edit
Thanks DMT for the excellent description of the pull test
and other essential details in your reply to my questions
below
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Nov 10, 2011 - 06:40pm PT
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I also like an autoblock below the rappel device for the first person down. That's where your hand is anyway. The autoblock can act a lot like a glove protecting your hand, and can provide more friction if needed. It's nice to know you are still securely connected to the rope when you setup the next anchor or if you need to untangle the rope below you.
Following climber(s) typically get a fireman's.
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mctwisted
Social climber
slacker city
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Nov 10, 2011 - 07:04pm PT
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this is a great thread! this is the anchor that i found at the top of pitch one of english breakfast today. looks like more than one party has rappeled on this 7mm cord around a big flake, notice the sharp (scary) edges on the sides. also here is a shot (hopefully not to dark)that shows the old previous anchor, which was a knot of rope that got stuck when someone was pulling there ropes long ago, it was cut and left, and subsequent parties left one sling, then another till there was maybe a dozen slings around it with a couple biners thrown on, and you could'nt see what was behind the slings
alexey was up at arch on a trip a couple years ago and asked me what was it that was behind all those slings anyway that made up that pitch one anchor? since i was thinking about repairing the top of pitch two anyway i decided to cut out all the slings and clean that anchor up if i could, sure was a shocker when i saw it was just a stuck knot in there, turns out it is probably safer than this cord around the flake though.
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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Nov 10, 2011 - 07:05pm PT
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That original post should be pasted into an intro climbing book.
Sometimes necessity forces you to break some of those rules. Kinda sucks, fer sure.
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murcy
Gym climber
sanfrancisco
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Nov 10, 2011 - 07:05pm PT
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Real glad for all these tips.
I've read about quite a number of accidents that would have been prevented simply by fixing the rope(s) at the anchor for all but the last climber. Then even if they miss a strand in their device, lose control of a strand while rapping, or go off the end of a strand that's for whatever reason shorter than the other, they're not necessarily dead.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Nov 10, 2011 - 07:14pm PT
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Climber Death on Wake Peak, Alaska
Climber’s fall reinforces safety issues
By Matias Saari
Staff Writer
Published April 27, 2007
A simple knot would have prevented a 38-year-old Seattle woman from rappelling off the end of her rope and falling to her death Monday on a technical mountain in Denali National Park and Preserve, her Fairbanks climbing partner said Thursday.
Jed Kallen-Brown, 23, was above his partner and out of her sight on Mount Wake when he heard her scream, followed by the sound of a person falling. Kallen-Brown, who arrived back in Fairbanks Wednesday night, has two theories about what happened.
“I think the most likely scenario is she was looking for gear, didn’t realize how close to the end of the rope she was, and it just slipped through her hand,” said Kallen-Brown, who met the woman more than a year ago and had climbed with her in California’s Yosemite Park.
“The other possible scenario is that she knew she was close to the end of the rope, intended to only let a small amount of rope through, and due to the slippery belay rope combination, more rope than intended went through the device, and she went off the end of the rope that way,” Kallen-Brown said.
The woman, a climber of 15 years who had been in the Alaska Range before, was rappelling on a single strand and was setting protective devices for Kallen-Brown in order to belay him down to her. A safety knot at the end of the rope would have prevented her 1,300-foot fall, Kallen-Brown said.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=367153&msg=369538#msg369538
The slippery, thin, single strand, and cold conditions meant she had far less friction in the system than she was probably use to.
--------
Use a sling instead of a belt to hold up your pants so you have that much more to build anchors with.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 10, 2011 - 07:34pm PT
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Dan Mc - you removed all that junk on EB Crack. Thanks! What is left? Does the next party need to take extra slings, or?
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Nov 10, 2011 - 07:43pm PT
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Scariest rap - a multipitch simul rappel down the Colorado NE Ridge of the Kingfisher...in the dark. We'd topped out at sunset, which was certainly scenic enough, but left us with the prospect of rapping the Seattle Space Needle - 800 feet up, and about 8 feet from the wall.
I was using a 6-'biner rap, as usual until this episode, on a single strand, and was getting majorly rope burn thru my leather gloves. Kevin and I were daisied together, but if I'd lost my brake hand...
ATC ever since, but, rereading Robbin's Rockcraft, was ashamed to have forgotten about adding another 6 biners for a double friction rap.
After a good swing into the stance, a dicey tension to the next one down.
Closest Call - Burk, Carter, and I were caught by a summer storm way up on the Mouth, GPA, and we were all spaced out at various levels on the route. Now, rain can turn 3rd Class friction into 5.10 - so what if you're on 5.10 to begin with?
I was at sort of a midway ledgelet, the others above, the rope trailing past to a lower stance. Everyone holling back and forth, rock running with water, I caught myself just in time, as I was about to unclip from the anchors...before clipping into the rappel device.
On another misadventure, someone's bright idea of a diagonal from Hoppy's Favorite over to the Grack hung up the ropes. Fortunately (for me), I wasn't the one who had to essentially free solo up with a jammed rope as the only pro.
Best tip from Mr. Donini I'd never thought of was the Test Pull. 'Cause it does happen. I've no jones with rapping off of slings, though - I ALWAYS carry knotted 1" slings (at least 1 double-length) and a belay knife, and I always add a new sling. Sean's like, "that's my favorite sling!" Fine, fine, here's fifty cents, buy a new one. Seems like a ring is just another link which could fail.
But I dig coming up on bleached out rap slings - means we're the first in a while.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Nov 10, 2011 - 07:54pm PT
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I can't believe I forgot to mention this!
AFTER THE LAST RAP, NEVER REMOVE YOUR HARNESS UNTIL YOU'VE PULLED THE ROPE.
DO NOT TEMPT THE ROPE GODS!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 10, 2011 - 07:56pm PT
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If you use a 2x2x2 carabiner brake, you can increase the friction by making it a 2x2x3 brake - the rope runs over three carabiners. IIRC, I once used a 2x2x4 system. 2x2x3 is possible with regular ovals, anyway.
Maybe people don't often now carry enough oval carabiners to do this, but perhaps the larger non-wire gate modified Ds would work. I've used at least some kinds to do a carabiner brake.
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Footloose
Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
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Nov 10, 2011 - 08:17pm PT
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So has anyone here actually had the experience of
rapping - inadvertently of course - into their backup knot?
A stomach-churning experience for sure that would be.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 10, 2011 - 08:23pm PT
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Umm, that would bring up another sensitive issue. A backup knot may not prevent the rope from slipping through your rappel device, or brake. There was at least one well known rappelling fatality in the late 1960s as a result. If a "deadman's stop" seems needed, use a prusik/autoblock (below your device), tie the ends of both ropes together into a single snug knot that's above the rope ends, or tie a loop in the end(s) of the rope(s), and clip something solid to it/them. A #10 hex used to be thought about right for the purpose.
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mctwisted
Social climber
slacker city
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Nov 10, 2011 - 08:31pm PT
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mighty hiker
going back up to arch and eb in a few days, i'm still contemplating what to do with that anchor, but ill leave it safe (after seeing what people are rapping off)
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