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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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"Also, why is no one defending third trimester abortions on here?"
I am explicitly defending any and all procedures a woman and / or her physician decide are necessary for any reason prior to birth. It is a woman's body and no one has a right to say what happens with it besides her.
Also, if you took Werner's position that life is in sperm (classic) then the type of laws you want should make mastubation a crime. What makes his view any less valid or less likely for government to implement...
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Rajmit - By all means - please present newer statistics. And what, may I ask, leads you to believe that the overall numbers have changed so drastically since 1996?
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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DMT - Any law, however derived, is good law if you agree with it?!
I am not arguing for or against your position on whether ABs should be legal or not. But I disagree strongly with your arguments and justifications both about it and the process. Fortunately our legal system is stronger than that.
Like the other poster said, there is a huge multi-dimensional spectrum on most any issue and this one in particular. Rights and positions often have competing values. Perhaps what might be wrong here would be right in China. Perhaps choice should include both parents, since as Happi rightly points out, paternity laws are much stronger today. Ours is a diverse society. I do not think that the best way to determine a good law is to put one man in charge and let him create them all, whether it is you, a president, supreme court justice. And I am not offering to take that role either.
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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healyje
"I am explicitly defending any and all procedures a woman and / or her physician decide are necessary for any reason prior to birth."
So as long as the fetus/child is in the womb of a woman, killing it (and that is what is occurring) is OK?
(have often had a problem with that word, "termination")
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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No, it isn't a 50-50 deal. A woman carries a pregrancy to term in her body - a man doesn't carry it for half the time. It's a woman's body and if she decides not to carry a pregnancy to term for any reason that's her perogative. When you carry it for half the term than you get half the say...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apocalypsenow - any procedure. The right of a woman to control the destiny of her own body should be inviolable. Ditto for all of us relative to right-to-die and assisted-suicide.
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WBraun
climber
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"It is a woman's body and no one has a right to say what happens with it besides her."
Not true we do not have ownership of our bodies. We rent them from the real owner.
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dirtbag
climber
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"Also, if you took Werner's position that life is in sperm (classic) then the type of laws you want should make mastubation a crime. "
Then the only thing I would have left in my life would be climbing. :-(
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WBraun
climber
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I never said that life is in the sperm.
I said life is the soul. When a soul needs to take birth it enters the sperm which is the carrier to the womb.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Again, the process happens within a woman's body - no man or government has a right to dictate terms to her decisions relative to it. Genetic contribution is irrevalent.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Werner, If it carries life, it is life...
And this is exactly the type of belief that is at the roots of why women and girls in India are murdered and maimed at grotesque rates while that society and religion either condones or turn a blind eye.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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healyje - Another simplistic argument. Which, of course, could then simply be extended to the right to ingest drugs.
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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OK, healyje just clarifying...in the womb the doctor can poison, scrape out, the fetus/child/what ever word usage you choose.
Outside the womb, it is now a child, protected by the laws you and I are protected by.
Interesting perspective.
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WBraun
climber
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Thus your car is alive sitting in your driveway without the inital driver?
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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You know what might be interesting....
In an anonymous poll, I'd like to know how many abortions people - in general - were responsnible for.
I'm not asking for those on this site to give personal numbers, but I have the feeling that it averages out that guys have "more abortions under their belt"(you know what I mean) than women. In just about every category, except for under aged 18.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Werner, if sperm "carries" life, it is life.
This is exactly one of male beliefs that are at the roots of the murder and maiming of tens of thousands of Indian women and girls across the country while that society and religion both condones and turns a blind eye...
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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happie, you are showing your math ignorance there. They would be one to one (unless some women have convinced two different guys of the same event).
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apocalypsenow, Trad, and Rajmit - when it comes to reproductive rights a woman's body is solely her domain. No man or government should have any say over her body relative to any aspect of reproduction. Period. Once a child is born, a child is born and is no longer of her body - until that moment she has complete say over all aspects of her body.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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You really are missing the conversation at this point Roger...
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stinky
climber
Guymon OK
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TG- easy to have more than one potential father, but very hard to misidentify the mother.
edit-sorry TG- reading to quickly
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