Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
storer
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
|
|
I have the Google Earth coords of Joye Zarin in the Tangi river area of Wardak provnce at Lat 34° 0'11.51"N, Long 68°48'20.97"E. Does anyone agree?
To get there leave Kabul on the highway to Kandahar (A01) and turn left at Sheykhabad. Cover your face and shut up. Let your driver talk. Be well armed as the locals don't like outsiders.
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
|
|
blueguy wrote:
//Why don't you ask little girls who go to school there now? And also ask the ones who have acid thrown at them BECAUSE they are allowed to go to school. We should walk away from that????
Yet, you would be one to fight for a stupid f*#king bird, right?
We got into this this war over anger. Once there we found a huge can of worms. We can walk away and say it ain't problem, or we can try to help them.
What say you//
that's just ridiculous, and on so many levels it's impossible to address them all in one thread!
(let's for now ignore the idea that you and your ilk call yourselves patriotic while you collectively refuse to raise any taxes on the wealthy, even while you demand cuts in services to little girls right here in america, not to mention the little old ladies or the jobless or the hungry or the veterans, etc)
in afganistan we have only like 100k or maybe 150k fighters in that H U G E nation, we are not protecting girls going to school there, we are not changing their culture nor their country.
our "plan" was to create some stability so that the "new government" could become established and gain traction with the population, but a decade has gone by and that has not happened, nor will it, ever.
EVERYONE there knows we are leaving, eventually, one day or another, sooner or later.
for that reason, the taliban doesn't even need to put up that consistent of a fight, and for the same reason, the people of afganistan will never endorse or support the US or a US backed form of government, because doing so would be choosing sides with a temporary power, knowing full well that power will be leaving (just like the last time and the time before that and the time before that).
OBAMA should have declared victory when they(we) got OSAMA-
now all they(we) can do is leave a vanquished crusader.
as someone else implied upthread, pretty ironic that they figured out how to shoot down seals in copters right after we did OBL like that, hmmm...
|
|
sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
|
|
blue, ever see Restrepo? it's hard to get a war boner after viewing that brutal documentary..very different from gears of war and tour of duty, even the black ops version.
|
|
lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
|
|
No team members that got OBL were killed just members of same unit.
That is why their called Shithooks. Will not get me in one of those.
Scary run. What do expect from a slow ship the size of a blimp.
|
|
storer
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
|
|
The Helicopter's Grim Future in Modern Combat:
http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Defensewatch_120303_Helicopter,00.htm
Billions, nay Trillions, spent on advanced weapons. DARPA, National Labs, Universities researching countermeasures against IED's and RPG's and this is what we get?
Guys running around in flip-flops shooting down advanced hardware?
How come the tea partiers aren't totally outraged by wasted taxes, huh? Let alone the parents of these brave souls........
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2011 - 12:30am PT
|
Jan's right- this thread is about recognizing the contributions and tremendous loss that we have suffered as a country in the loss of these 30 people. It's easy to transfer the tragedy of an event like this into the politics that got us & keep us there. It's also very hard to keep them separate.
Some will retort by saying it is ridiculous & short-sighted to somehow consider this event as any more significant than the thousands of deaths and disabilities that have occurred thusfar. That's fair enough. It's also realistic to say that, whether it's right or not, contemporary American wars or conflicts can turn on single events. My hope is that this will be such a moment, and that the list of family and friends who experience the loss of someone in this particular war will finally come to an end.
|
|
Maysho
climber
Soda Springs, CA
|
|
Rest in Peace, and sincere condolences to all loved ones in this tragic loss.
If Coz knew them, then I probably met of them some as well... Not too long ago, I did 5 days of ski training for a unit that had climbed with Coz. They were definitely the best and the brightest of the many military folks I have trained in the mountains over the years.
Yes, I am highly critical of my country's military entanglements and misguided policies, but I am always in support of those who serve, and grateful that they do, and happy to do my super small part when I get to work with them as a mountain guide.
Peter
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
You can't run ground ops in remote terrain without choppers and they will always be vulnerable to asymmetric weaponry. It is unfortunately the face of warfare in today's world. We proved that in Afghanistan with the Russians. RPGs deny the ability to operate in the air just as the new generation of IEDs deny us the roads. That's the whole point of asymmetric warfare, imposing a higher cost to operate on the 'superior' force. In the end its a matter of will. The loss of these fine men was part of our cost to bear and either we have the will to do so or we have no business being there.
|
|
rurprider
Trad climber
Mt. Rubidoux
|
|
Hey, set that beer down and get off the sidelines, and make a donation to "The Special Operations Warrior Foundation." The Special Operations Warrior Foundation was founded in 1980 as the Colonel Arthur D. "Bull" Simons Scholarship Fund to provide college educations for the children surviving special operations men (and women??) killed serving their country. This foundation has made over 300 children eligible for college funding. Stop chewing the fat and/or complaining via ST and chip in!!
Special Operations Warrior Foundation
P.O. Box 13483
Tampa, Florida 33690
email: warrior@specialops.org
Toll-free phone: 1-877-337-7693
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2011 - 01:43am PT
|
http://www.specialops.org/
http://www.specialops.org/?page=SOWFFacts
History of the Special Operations Warrior Foundation
The Special Operations Warrior Foundation (SOWF) began in 1980 as the Col. Arthur D. "Bull" Simons Scholarship Fund.specialops The Bull Simons Fund was created following the Iranian hostage rescue attempt, to provide college educations for the 17 children who survived the nine men killed or incapacitated at Desert One. It was named in honor of the legendary Army Green Beret Bull Simons, who repeatedly risked his life on rescue missions.
The Warrior Foundation is committed to providing scholarship grants, not loans, to more than 800 children. These children survive more than 700 Special Operations personnel who gave their lives in service to their country, including those who died fighting our nation's war against terrorism, as part of "Operation Enduring Freedom" in Afghanistan and the Philippines; as well as "Operation Iraqi Freedom."
To date, some 160 children of fallen special operations warriors have graduated from college.
|
|
Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it. I'd prefer you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post." - A Few Good Men
Oorah! You did well men!
Glory to God!
|
|
Argon
climber
North Bay, CA
|
|
fatty - If the Israelis have a good solution to protect our helicopters, great - but I hope it doesn't break our budget. If the Israelis can do something for thousands of dollars, our military and its web of defense contractors, lobbyists, and congressional enablers will find a way to turn it into a bloated multi-billion dollar program. Now I firmly believe that if we are going to send any of our men or women into harm's way, we should do everything that we can to protect them. If I were there, I'd want every technological advantage regardless of cost. I'd much rather ride in an MRAP rather than a Humvee - even though the MRAP costs the taxpayers about $1 million each and gets 2.5 mpg to do the job of a $150K Humvee which does the same job that a $25K jeep could do. (Of course the Taliban managed to take over the country driving a bunch of beat to crap, $10K Toyota pickups.) But the only logical solution is to get the boots off the ground. We're not building anything of lasting value there. Let's bring everybody home. We can still lob drone-launched Hellfires at them from time to time if anyone spots Mullah Omar. Any country that would let itself be led back to the stone age by that one-eyed, toothless, misogynistic motherfcker isn't worth saving.
|
|
Port
Trad climber
San Diego
|
|
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it. I'd prefer you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post." - A Few Good Men
Oorah! You did well men!
Glory to God!
Did you miss the entire point of the movie? It sure sounds like you did.
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
He died, not fighting for oil, or some high in the sky ideals, but trying to rescue a group of pinned down, regular troops; he died trying to save his brothers.
I agree that most people who decide to join elite fighting groups don't do it for political reasons. They do it because it is their calling, and I am grateful that there are such people. Just as I am grateful that there are such people as the Chief who risked his life rescuing others.
But when someone makes the case that a war was unjustified, such as for oil, then the argument isn't about whether some navy seal risked his life for his brothers. We know that is likely true. Its just that the real argument becomes, would he have had to risk his life in that case if we hadn't sent his friends into an unnecessary war.
Please understand Coz, that I have no idea which war you are talking about. I'm just talking in general about the reasons I fight against some wars because the consequence of all wars is that good men like these are put at risk, and I want to make damn certain that that risk is justified. And I'm not talking about the risk to save a friend. That is certainly justified. I'm talking about there even being the NEED to save that friend. That some wars aren't justified and thus if we didn't get into them, then no one would need rescuing.
That said, I am very sorry for the loss of these men.
|
|
Studly
Trad climber
WA
|
|
Back in the 1960s and 1970s, soliders would come to stay and have dinner at our house on holiday, on leave from Vietnam from Ft Lewis/McCord bases. We would later learn that some of them would never come home again. I got to know a number of these warriors in the short time alloted to us. I was just a kid but they made a huge impression on me. There is one thing they all shared, they were scared of going back to Nam. Didn't matter, infantry, Special forces, whatever, I could sense the tension, the unease. This song always made me sad, as it enforced so many of those memories, and is about all that is left of those young boys who were men who never came back home again. Salute!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYf3aQPP_VQ
|
|
426
climber
☬
|
|
Moosie, precisely; Afghanistan; graveyard of empires (2001, whoa). Those not familiar with history, etc,etc...
It was a time of great and exalting excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and spluttering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory which stirred the deepest deeps of their hearts, and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country, and invoked the God of Battles beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpourings of fervid eloquence which moved every listener.
Seem familiar? Idem; Read more Mark Twain....
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/making/warprayer.html
|
|
Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
|
|
"He died, not fighting for oil, or some high in the sky ideals, but trying to rescue a group of pinned down, regular troops; he died trying to save his brothers.
I'm proud to call him my friend, who spent his whole life not in the selfish pursuit of full time climbing, but away from the limelight trying to make the world a better place for us and for all people world wide."
Isn't this a 'no he's not, yes he is' situation?
|
|
Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
|
|
Sad thing is seems Tillman saw it coming. Such a waste!
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!