Accident on Fairview Dome

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rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Jun 25, 2011 - 04:06pm PT
The problem here is that you think you're safe on a TR. Obviously, you're not.

Here is some more rough but still suggestive quantification. If your leader has done a 200 foot lead, your top rope will stretch about 15 feet (the numbers for static stretch or working elongation vary considerably for different ropes, but 7.5% is in the ballpark for many ropes).

So, if you fall from 10 feet up, you're gonna hit the ledge. The bad news about this is that if the rope stretches 2/3 (=10/15) of what it needs, it only absorbs 4/9 (let's call it 1/2) of the fall energy. The result is that you hit the ledge with an impact equivalent to the one you'd experience if you free fell 5 feet. Not a lot maybe, but enough to do nasty damage if you don't land well. For example, imagine dropping 5 feet and landing in a sitting position.

Now if the leader has done a 100 foot lead rather than a 200 foot lead, then the rope will stretch 7.5 feet and since you were ten feet up, you are stopped before the ledge, as you have mistakenly come to expect.

So to alter the message a little bit, if you are linking pitches, the second will be bouldering the start to the pitch---without a pad---and should climb (and fall) appropriately.
Gene

climber
Jun 25, 2011 - 04:22pm PT
Thanks rgold. I appreciate your input. Given the popularity of the new skinny 70 m cords, we may see events like this more often. Hope not.

Situational awareness is a beautiful thing.

g
Tahoe climber

climber
Davis these days
Jun 25, 2011 - 05:05pm PT
Much respect for the self-rescue.
Hope you get your gear back.
If you don't post up, and we'll see if the ST community can help out.

TC
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Jun 25, 2011 - 05:39pm PT
As rgold has pointed out, the idea of running out 200' leads is questionable in many cases. BITD there were very few injuries to the second climber due to rope stretch, more a result of shorter ropes and shorter leads being the norm. The stretchy ropes can save the leader from injury but can lead to the second getting crunched as in the currently discussed case.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jun 26, 2011 - 03:31pm PT
Roger Breedlove said
Just having two helpers to get back to the car could make a huge difference.

bearing weight for any amount of time on a seriously broken bone (worse yet bones) can be long term damaging as many have said.

There's an alternative to calling YOSAR implied by Roger's post. Getting victim down to base is sometimes reasonable and a good idea. After getting yourselves down, consider stabilizing the injured person and then running to the road for assistance. At Fairview there'd likely be other climbers willing and able to help retrieve the victim without doing more harm. Splint the leg with branches/blankets/sleeping pads etc. Bag victim in sleeping bag/blanket etc. 6 strong men/women can easily carry victim a long way over rough terrain without much risk. 4 can manage

I'd suggest don't be a hero. If your self rescue is likely to make a serious condition worse (insert a whole lot of possible scenarios here), get YOSAR sooner rather than later.

I wish the very best recovery to this climber.
Mr_T

Trad climber
Northern California
Jun 26, 2011 - 04:33pm PT
Self rescue = you win the Super Tacoz! Hope your buddy heals quickly.
davcro

climber
San Francisco
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2011 - 12:32pm PT
Thank you for the positive vibes everyone.

Regarding our decision to self rescue. We made the right decision. We have zero doubts. Steve (my partner) did not want to spend hours waiting alone on that ledge for YOSAR (I wouldn't either). Lowering him to the ground was straight forward because we were only one pitch up. The snow made hiking out relatively easy as we were able to slide down any steep section. Never once did Steve put weight on the broken leg (!). Just touching the foot caused him to scream in pain. Steve had a collapsible ski pole to use as a cane and my shoulder to stay stable. Had the injury been more serious, e.g., femur fracture, than I would have ran for a helicopter. I should also note that I’m an EMT-B.

We were not trying to be heroes. We wanted to get off that dome as quick as possible. I only posted this on ST because I wanted my gear back, not because I wanted to sound like a hero. I was nervous to post here because I half-expected people to claim the gear was booty and scorn me for asking for it back. I also didn't want to debate the self-rescue. We both know we made the right decision. That said, I enjoyed reading your opinions and feel like the debate here was constructive instead of critical.

Regarding the accident and our climbing ability. I lead the first two pitches and thought they were straight forward. Even wet there was only one move of 5.9. It was the second time I'd ever climbed with Steve. Steve had done more difficult multi-pitch climbs and this climb was within his ability. Why did he fall? Because he was trying to climb fast. We both believe the follower should climb as fast as possible because they have the safety of a top-rope. We did not consider the danger of rope stretch. I've never heard of this sort of accident before. I've witnessed several broken legs and one fatality from lead falls. I've never witnessed an injury to the follower. In the future I will be mindful of rope stretch.

I haven't heard back from my gear. I left a couple of cams and some helium biners. Would anyone be willing to climb this with me this week (any day works)? I'm solid at the grade and would be happy to lead every pitch. Also I'd be willing to follow every pitch. This isn't a pride thing. I just want that gear back! I'd be happy to buy beer, pay for gas, whatever.

Again, thank you for the positive vibes and constructive feedback.

HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jun 27, 2011 - 03:26pm PT
davcro
great post! Sounds as if you guys made the right decision for your situation and executed it well.
Really hope you get your gear back.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jun 27, 2011 - 03:46pm PT
Perhaps someone did the route over the weekend, and retrieved your gear. How was the weather in Tuolumne?
just_one

Mountain climber
CA
Jun 27, 2011 - 04:23pm PT
sent you a pm davcro.
BurnRockBurn

climber
South of Black Rock City (CC,NV)
Jun 27, 2011 - 05:49pm PT
Good job guys on getting out. One thing I recommend for everyone is to carry a SAM splint in your pack It weighs nothing and you can splint damn near anything with it. All you need is tape.......which we usually already have. I have one in every one of my packs
Be safe, climb on

Shawn

http://www.sammedical.com/sam_splint.html
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jun 27, 2011 - 06:04pm PT
I think rgold hit it on the head upthread.

Another aspect of linking pitches which a lot of folks don't consider is the complexity of helping an injured leader who is well past 35M out on a single cord.

Best wishes to the injured climber, and I hope you guys get your gear back (but in the scheme of things that's trivial.)
Daphne

Trad climber
Mill Valley, CA
Jun 27, 2011 - 06:09pm PT
davcro, your post has led to an interesting discussion so I thank you for posting it. I send your partner healing vibes and wishes for a smooth and quick recovery. And it has been, imho, exhaustively established that gear left due to injury is NOT booty. I hope your gear gets back to you in great condition.
OlympicMtnBoy

climber
Seattle
Jun 27, 2011 - 09:47pm PT
Good points and best wishes both for gear retrieval and healing limbs!

I had a similar incident a year ago on an alpine climb where I led a ~40m pitch on a 9.1 stretchy single rope. Not terribly long, but long enough that when my second fumbled near the start he hit the belay ledge and toppled off backwards and upside down with rope stretch. No injuries but still shook him up a bit. Didn't help that he's a big guy but it made me rethink certain situations.
Matt

Trad climber
primordial soup
Jun 28, 2011 - 12:53am PT
DMT- LOL

davcro- hey man, there is no way that gear is still sitting where you left it. go back and climb the route for the fun of it, but the RRoFVD has pbly never seen a summer wkend come and go without an ascent, and there is no way peeps just climbed by your gear, am i right? so it's gone, let it go.

to your last post, people don't fall because hey are in a rush, they fall because they are climbing out of control.

try this as an experiment:
i suggest you think of the world's fastest climbers, names that are synonymous with yosemite and speed, climbers you think are "fast".

now load up youtube and try to find all the videos you can of those climbers, out climbing (seriously, do it).


know what you are gonna learn?
speed isn't about climbing really fast. it's about climbing in complete control and not wasting any time unnecessarily.


have fun and climb safe!
-matt



edit-
you know i was not gonna go into it but wtf, maybe it will help someone be safer out there and avoid injury.


from the OPs recent comments we see this team was trying to follow quickly but had not considered that 'rope stretch' could lead to decking on a nearby ledge (even a full rope length of stretch, apparently).

obviously, a 2nd is only "safe" to fall when both the space they'd be likely fall into and the path they'd fall through are clear of obstacles.

so yes, longer pitches/ropes and thinner ropes can add to the uncertainty of where and how quickly a 2nd might fall as the rope stretches, but here's what's missing from that 'rope stretch' discussion:

there is of course more than one way to belay your 2nd up!

if the belayer ties in to the anchor and then belays off the harness, it's a pretty passive belay, you just pull up on the weight of the rope below, and as it's free, you take it in. you usually take it in up toward, but not all the way to the point where the rope is tight. it's very reactive, in other words you have to wait until you become aware that there is slack to be taken up, and at that point you try to take up some or most of that slack. right?

so in that instance, while in this thread we are talking about 'rope stretch', but we are not also saying that the rope will of course only stretch after the slack in the system is used up. so for this case, it really sounds to me like there was likely some slack, as there often is when one is the following a pitch. in addition, the distance and rope length between climber and belayer, and also the drag across gear and terrain are factors that tend to increase the slack within a system, so in fact an experienced climber is well aware that at the beginning of any pitch it is more difficult for the belayer to control the fate of the 2nd, and it is less secure to actually be the 2nd, for that reason.

alternatively-
if a belayer uses one of many auto-blocking devices to belay the 2nd up, and then belays off the anchor rather than off their harness, one can actually make the 2nd safer in several ways- it's quite a bit easier to actually pull a little of the stretch out of the rope in this way, giving the 2nd a slight feeling of tension on the line, and in doing so, one necessarily reduces the amount of slack in the system. also, when the line has tension, the belayer is more readily aware of a lack of tension, and can respond more readily by taking in rope sooner, bringing the tension back to the line.

practice (i.e. experience) both in belaying this way, and in setting up a belay position to facilitate belaying this way, are both useful in increasing the belayers ability to 'shorten the fall' of their 2nd.

i would venture to guess that anyone who has ever made a "partner" of their perhaps less experienced "partner" might have been more likely to experience these tricks in an effort to make very sure that partner was as safe as possible.

if you are an aspiring lead climber and are not sure what i am talking about, go look it up!

cheers,
-matt
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Jun 28, 2011 - 05:33pm PT
Pre- stretching the rope can make TR or seconding very save.
You can apply all your weight and make fall of or partner with full length 70m rope no more than 3 feet.
Only If your second agree with this type of belay , because it take some pleasure away.
Floyd Hayes

Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
Jun 28, 2011 - 05:49pm PT
Long pitches never appealed to me. Too much rope drag. Plus more risk due to rope stretch for both leader near top of pitch and follower near bottom of pitch.
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Jun 28, 2011 - 06:28pm PT
Great job on the self rescue and this productive discussion!
phylp

Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
Jun 28, 2011 - 06:53pm PT
This is a very good discussion. No one is being critical of the individuals involved, they are just expressing different ideas about what might have contributed to the accident or what might be useful in other situations.

I agree with Riley Wyna about the need to belay differently in different situations. A lot of people are enamored of this "soft catch" method used a lot in steep sport climbing and seem to apply the "few feet of slack" approach to all belaying situations. (And I'm not at all trying to infer or imply that the OP had any slack in his system.) Whenever a ledge or the ground is a factor, I think it makes sense for the leader to prestretch the rope for the second.
Ottawa Doug

Social climber
Ottawa, Canada
Jun 29, 2011 - 05:31am PT
Good job on the self rescue guys. Hope you got your gear back and that the leg is healing.

Cheers,

Doug
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