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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Katelyn Bonar has two undergraduate degrees, in biology and psychology. She's also halfway through medical school. And she's well on her way to racking up $300,000 in student loans. Last year, she took time off from medical school and looked for work. Query how that would look to an employer. Someone smart but without a clear vision of what they're looking for, fiscally sloppy (i.e., borrowing to pursue a second undergrad degree) and who's putting med school on hold (and may never finish) rather than pushing through, and who will likely drop the job you hire her for at her whim. No wonder no one wants to hire her. College is great; being a professional student is not.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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"To get a good job, get a good education." Is a marketing slogan.
The truth is: To get a good job, you have to know what you are doing.
You may or may not get that at a college.
The education system in this country is totally busted. I figured that out in high school, dropped out and built my own education. I've always done very well.
Here is another pipe dream: "Get a good job."
Real men make their own jobs.
For the vast majority, college is a waste of time. Just go start entry level in the field of your choice and work for free for two years. It costs way less and you'll get knowledge you can use to make a living.
Also, read. Read a lot.
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perswig
climber
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Eight years of college here.
Went to two land grant universities, was seldom disappointed in the quality of subject and instruction (some of that is retrospective, of course), could clearly see the reasoning behind the educational path I was on.
Couple of things helped.
I was extremely fortunate that a poorly-researched career choice at 18 turned out to be a near-perfect fit for my temperament and skill set.
And I took some time off in the middle there to hump a rifle and mortar around.
BrianH and a few others have touched on the fact that maybe the maturity, self-awareness, or preparation of the average incoming undergrad isn't what it should be to reap all the bennies of higher ed. Whether that's a function of socioeconomic issues, K-12 ed gaps, lead paint ingestion, whippet use, whatever, maybe a few years doing something between high school and college might fine-tune direction, expectations. But that something should be worthwhile in and of itself, not eating Doritos and playing Halo in your mother's basement for 18 months 'preparing' for college.
Dale
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
the pitch above you
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I think I saw this movie - it's called "Accepted" and has the dude that looks like Keanau Reeves but isn't Keanau Reeves in it.
In all seriousness, yeah a few brilliant folks make it and contribute fantastically to society without college... but most often the folks that think they are gonna be that guy end up pumping gas and flipping burgers.
Wait! I just figured out a better movie analogy, this is really the middle class white version of "Hoop Dreams", but instead of basketball, they all think they're gonna have a silicon valley start-up.
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Maysho
climber
Soda Springs, CA
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I haven't gone to college... yet! Running Gateway Mountain Center, my third business, I am often in a position of mentoring high school age students who are struggling in different ways. I never speak of my experience as some sort of example of a path to follow, except the aspect that passion and hard work are the key to success.
I was a very successful teen-ager, I went to a top prep-high school, after a rich grammer school time in Waldorf and then a very far-out gifted program in science and art. While in high school I was a Sierra Club outing leader, teaching rock climbing and being the leader for weekend outings in Yosemite, before I could even drive there.
I planned to go to college, I had the test scores and transcript to go somewhere very cool, but I was also climbing really hard at a time when not that many were, so I figured I would go to Yosemite for a year or two, then go to school. During a long cold winter in Camp 4, I started dating a waitress with an 18 month old, 9 months later we bought a house in El Portal, and soon we were expecting a baby. That spring I was made Chief Guide of YMS, because I was articulate and ambitious, and no one else wanted to do it!
I have never had the experience of looking for a job. I follow my interests passionately, see something that needs to be done, and work really hard toward that goal.
So when I have a student who questions whether they should go to school, I say if you love to read books all the time - if you are a life-long learner, if you are a good writer, and you find a passion and work hard to achieve excellence in that endeavor, you can probably do anything you want; otherwise you better go to school!
I still think about it a lot, I would love to do a graduate program, and every now and then I slightly regret that I didn't get that bachelors way back when. Once I talked to my son about this and he said "what four years of your past would you trade back in?"
Peter
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 4, 2011 - 11:34am PT
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I put myself through college and that in itself had many life long teachings on how to make things happen and working through the bureaucracy. My girls are doing the same thing. They are very proud of their accomplishments.
I have talked with parents who have paid for their childs college and they wish they had done it the other way. The kids rely on their parents for everything and are unappreciative.
That said, I wish I could help out my girls more than I do.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Finn from VT
"College got me where I'm at"
Just a peave of mine, sorry.
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krahmes
Social climber
Stumptown
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These Latinos have found out a college degree is good for hanging out in a Barcelona square and living with your parents.
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drunkenmaster
Social climber
santa rosa
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College is for retarded rich kids - I am damn proud to have graduated from the school of rock!
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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How you contribute to society is all that matters.
college is just a bunch a paper work!
the factory i worked at years ago hired some college kid to do a part of the admin.
for an entire week he showed up 20min late!
he was let go for not showing on time!
i figured he was looking for the tardy slip! :(
i'm a Geo major working as a tech!
collage is fun and is no waste.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Fakt: Out of 4 nieces and nephews recently graduated two have decent jobs.
Of course, they were the ones who actually pursued majors that you couldn't
have achieved the same amount of knowledge in by reading at home.
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from an ice pick and missing my mama.
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Well that goes to show you don't realize what you have because you think it will always be here. Our country has been so rich that even the poor and under educated have been better off than most in other countries. Well, in the coming years let's see how much of this will hold true.
I really love smart people without degrees... I can pay them less. They are easier for companies to exploit for their advantages. People without degrees have to prove to me their value so I get them working twice as hard for their pay... Gosh, nothing gets better than this!!!
AFS
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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I'm a college teacher and for 80 percent of my students College is a waste of time. Theirs and mine.
I've learned to direct my efforts to the two out ten whom are at least making an effort to pretend to be engaged. And those two are solid enough that they are just there for the Degree. They usually have jobs before they graduate.
The eight out of ten are fresh out of high school, bankrupting their parents or their future selves and livin' by the motto 'C's get Degrees.'
C's get jobs too...Starbucks, McD's, Target. Nothing wrong with working at any of these places...but why pay thirty grand for the privilege?
I love teaching, but I'm developing an interest in Plumbing.
IMO the bedrock issue too many f*#king people, period.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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13th grade as I like to call it.
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NigelSSI
Trad climber
B.C.
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I fully appreciate College/Uni sciences, medicine, math, etc.
Why exactly our society considers those educated, and intelligent people more important than those producing food however, I will never understand. Not much point in going to the doctor without enough food to live. If greed is the motivation for a college education, that speaks volumes about how f*#ked up we all are.
Remember that lovely Douglas Adams bit about sending all the useless people away on a colony ship? The "A" ship carried the great leaders, scientists, and thinkers. The "C" ship carried the workers, those who actually made things. Theirs, the "B" ship, consisted of middle managers, hairdressers, telephone sanitizers, and the like. It eventually becomes clear that their planet was not in fact doomed, and that they were the victims of a ploy to rid their world of a useless third of the population.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Interesting comment, Wade Icey.
"too many people"
Yes, and maybe that is the ultimate fate of capitalism also.
There are only so many jobs in a society. Capitalism never promised full employment.
It's just another human experiment, just as slavery and socialism were.
Maybe higher education is the same. We educate millions for jobs that do not exist.
And the private for maximum profit colleges are the real winners.
Their majority shareholders are personally incredibly enriched by all the student loan money.
Lots and lots of master degreed people mixing lattes at Starbucks.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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High school is a waste of time more than college, in my opinion. I dropped out after the 9th grade because it was such an awful waste of time. College was much better at actually teaching me to do stuff, and in my line of work (RF/Microwave Engineering) you pretty much can't get your foot in the door without a degree, and heck you can barely start to understand the job WITH years of math and engineering classes.
That said, the majority of even engineering majors whose resumes I've waded through simply wasted their lives and their parents hard earned savings going through the motion not having a clue about the field they were headed towards.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Moof, did you have to get, present a GED to get into college later?
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Americans are so big on math and science as if we want college to be a trade school. Take a lit., art hist. or philos. class and THINK
Unbelievable. Down the tubes, America . . .
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from an ice pick and missing my mama.
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Laughing... Math and science is critical thinking involving the use of logic. I majored in History but it was the math and science classes that I had as part of my pre-requirements that regularly blew my mind. It taught me how to break down problems and work them in sections for an overall solution. It's fantastic if you can make the leap from what's on paper to your actual daily life.
In fact I might go back to try my hand on that route. Might even buzz up some new pathways in my mind that will help me out in life.
AFS
Plus I also took a brain twister of a class called Logic offered by the philosophy department. It was great for making you aware of all that you don't know... I think out of the two hundred students, maybe five of us fully understood it. (Me, myself and I only had my fingers on it, not a full grip.) Only fifty percent of the class passed since the professor wasn't the forgiving type. I remember really loving my math class in comparison.
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