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pc
climber
Eastside
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Feb 10, 2006 - 05:49pm PT
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Origin?
Where did the name French Free originate? Another French climbing term "Gaston" is cool because it's named after a Frenchman known for his herioc er..."lift and separate" move.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Feb 10, 2006 - 05:52pm PT
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You might not want change references to Polished Face as well.
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cordata
Trad climber
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Feb 10, 2006 - 06:20pm PT
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"French Free" is no more offensive to the French that what the French call an "American Stop" is to Americans. In France (and Quebec I think) an American Stop is when you approach a stop sign, slow down and roll thru without quite stopping.
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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Feb 10, 2006 - 07:07pm PT
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I always thought that was a "California stop"
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scuffy b
climber
S Cruz
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Feb 10, 2006 - 07:16pm PT
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Used to be a Hollywood stop.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 10, 2006 - 07:41pm PT
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Isn't french free cheating? Hence the word "french" in front of "free".
Otherwise it would just be free climbing.
So anything in front of "free" would qualify as bondage?
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Michael Moron
Social climber
Davison, MI
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Feb 10, 2006 - 09:00pm PT
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It is definitely offensive to us butt-kissing liberals. The French are our heros and we should not slander them.
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BoKu
Trad climber
Douglas Flat, CA
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Feb 10, 2006 - 09:20pm PT
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If you can't use a mildly offensive term on occasion, then the terrorists have won!
But seriously, I think you should explain the term on first use, say that it might be considered offensive to some, apologize in advance for any offense, note that it is already widely used, and move on.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Feb 10, 2006 - 11:05pm PT
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in all my years of climbing I have never heard "French Free" used in any but a derogatory way.
But then there is also:
"Euro-death-knot" EDK (see other recent thread)
And then the couloir on Mt. McKinely on the west butt route dubbed the "Orient Express"...
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estwing
Trad climber
montreal
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Feb 10, 2006 - 11:27pm PT
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For what its worth I am an anglophone who lives in Quebec. The term French free doesn't bother me, I think its funny, but I will admit to being hesistant to using the term with Francophone people around. I have stopped mid sentence before and thought long enough to say "um, yeah pulled on gear".
The Quebec French say "J'ai tirer sur un pro" " I pulled on gear"
For what its worth, we should try to get rid of "offensive" terms in climbing.
Sam
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cts
Trad climber
sw PA
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Feb 11, 2006 - 12:07am PT
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Since when are politicy correct terms so important to climbers? French free is an accepted term well known and used by climbers all over the world.
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cts
Trad climber
sw PA
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Feb 11, 2006 - 12:07am PT
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Since when are politicy correct terms so important to climbers? French free is an accepted term well known and used by climbers all over the world.
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Larry
Trad climber
Reno NV
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Feb 11, 2006 - 04:42pm PT
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Ed said:
> in all my years of climbing I have never heard "French Free" used in any but a derogatory way.
I've only heard it used in an ironic way.
The term gained currency only after the Euros showed us that their methods led to levels of difficulty that the Stonemasters only dreamed of.
With all due respect to the Stonemasters.
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Feb 11, 2006 - 05:12pm PT
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Hey Larry, I don't understand your post. "French Free" has meant holding onto protection to get past hard spots for a long time, at least since the early 1970s. It has nothing to do with hard free climbing; it applies to easy, fast aid climbing.
I am not sure that I agree with Ed on it being a derogatory phrase. I suppose if someone were to claim a free ascent pulling on protection, it would be ironic and derogatory. If it is meant as fast A0 aid, then it is just fast aid.
Hey Chris, I have only a vague sense of this, but it seems to me that the term came from descriptions of climbing in books published by French climbers in the 1960s. Rebuffat picture books ring a bell. Anyone have any similar thoughts or copies of Rebuffat 's books? Anyway if you are thinking it is inappropriate to call pulling through “French Free” call it A0.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Feb 11, 2006 - 06:23pm PT
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Perhaps I am overly moralistic and just hear "French Free" and assume it is bad.
A quick look through Rebuffat's On Ice and Snow and Rock didn't yield any reference to pulling on a piece for fast free climbing.
I did uncover this passage related to climbing on page 74:
"There are also subsidary rules.
The first is to avoid using the knees. A knee, when placed in a hold, swivels or rolls; even worse, it transmits no message to the climber, whereas the foot is a highly sensitive organ and transmits small sensations which matter a great deal. A climber on a pitch he has already climbed before wil get quite a different sense of contact if he is using the soles of a different thickness from last time, even if they are mounted on exactly the same model of boot. Moreover, giddiness is caused not only by a disturbance in the head but can equally well spring from sensations arising in other parts of the body - particularly the feet - and transmitted to the brain."
Watch out for giddy feet...
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estwing
Trad climber
montreal
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Feb 11, 2006 - 08:16pm PT
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Radical, what language do Quebec Francophones use and love so much they want to start their own country? FRENCH, therefore using the word French to indicate some lesser form of climbing could be offensive.
whatever.
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marty(r)
climber
beneath the valley of ultravegans
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Feb 11, 2006 - 08:57pm PT
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Climb free or the terrorists will have won.
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Feb 11, 2006 - 10:28pm PT
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Hey Radical, I have never climbed in France, but you are describing what I vaguely remember about the origin of "French Free."
Hey Ed, when I was a very 'wet-behind-the-ears' wannabe climber, puffed about some smallish climb I had done, I pontificated about not using one's knees. Kim Schmitz stepped in, told me I was full of sh#t, and said that one's knees were a much a part of one's body as any other.
Kim was really big. He had the prettiest girl friend. He climbed El Cap.
I agreed.
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