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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 31, 2011 - 09:33pm PT
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Limbs left on the trail. Burning green wood. Lighter Fluid 1/2 full???
Stupid is as stupid does.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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May 31, 2011 - 10:33pm PT
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Devil's Advocate time!
1 - Jesse, thanks for being a force for good and bringing issues like this up for discussion.
2 - Having said that... related to the "Wilderness Issue", but slightly different. Aren't there a crapload more trees in Yosemite Valley now than there were 200 years ago, before the moraine was dynamited to drain the swamp? Doesn't the NPS actively clear brush (e.g. young trees) in all of the major Valley meadows in order to maintain them as meadows?
(this doesn't mean that I'm for or against limbing, just food for thought! mostly, I think there are bigger fish to fry, like several others)
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hollyclimber
Big Wall climber
Yosemite, CA
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May 31, 2011 - 10:39pm PT
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I think its very weird and not sure who would bother to do this limbing at El Cap. I think the best thing we can do, is 1) not do it ourselves 2) call it out if we see it happening. I sort of feel like El Cap is a special space inhabited mostly by us climbers and it would be nice if we could police it ourselves to keep it a mostly ranger free zone. The food storage issues I have been seeing this month though make it seem pretty unlikely to me, as people are not doing the right thing. I have certainly wanted to limb occasionally (I would chose a certain tree on the E Ledges rappel) but would never do it. Unfortunately, with limbing, fires everywhere and massive food storage violations, its not looking too good for climbers taking care of our own space without NPS intervention.
HB
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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May 31, 2011 - 10:50pm PT
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re cleo and corniss's posts:
yeah, there is clearly way more vegetation/fuel in the valley now than was probably the case in 1800. and yeah, personally, i'd like to see the place radically burned back to the point that it resembled the first written descriptions. but good luck with that, given the recent history with control burns.
hoist on our own petard: a century of agit-prop from an emergent USFS and NPS that "only YOU can prevent forest fires," helped to build public support for protected areas in ways that identified "protection" with "fire suppression." now we have a century's worth of fuel built up. which also means, than an unplanned or unlucky fire could go apocalypse.
so yeah, now we're reduced to worrying about lopping en route to the wilderness a hundred yards from the road. the reason this is a problem is not ecological, but sociological: both managers and the general public are anxious about fire. so having c4 lowballs free-lance landscape management is a really bad idea.
and let's be real: most climbers would cry like babies if a functional program of controlled burns and mechanical thinning put the valley off-limits to climbers during the season.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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May 31, 2011 - 10:58pm PT
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The park has started doing controlled burns in the valley. Because of fuel quantities and air quality controls, they are having a tough time getting it done. But they have started.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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May 31, 2011 - 11:24pm PT
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Must be a film crew, or another NPS trail crew.
I can't imagine any climber packing gear to limb out a trail.
Think about it??
Cleaning a new route is something you have to do: but limbing out trees to open a trail??????
I can't imagine any climber I have ever known: packing gear, and limbing out a trail.
Limbing definition: The brutal practice of cutting off branches from live trees just so they won’t touch humans in an offensive manner
Brutal practice? Where did you find that defintion? The "Dudly-do-right NPS PC Enforcement Manual"?
Look for a different culprit.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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May 31, 2011 - 11:29pm PT
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Pilgrims, it was obviously just one of the many many preparations for the Royal Wedding recently. Jake and Jesse---- The J's as we call them---- being in the Provinces, just didn't get the invite.
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mrbaksh
Trad climber
Fort Worth, TX
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May 31, 2011 - 11:34pm PT
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Maybe there should be an established/marked/tagged (with arrows and stuff) trail to the base of El Cap and the routes. That would significantly eliminate the need for tree-delimbing.
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Oxymoron
Big Wall climber
total Disarray
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May 31, 2011 - 11:39pm PT
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It's not exactly France out there(yet).
Thank you for the heads up, Jesse.
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2011 - 11:39pm PT
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Maybe there should be an established/marked/tagged (with arrows and stuff) trail to the base of El Cap and the routes.
Are you out of your mind???
You can find the routes just about being blind folded.
Yeah ... it's that easy.
And .... you know who you are. The one who did all the cutting. You're not posting in this thread ..... being very very quiet.
But we know who you are ......
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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May 31, 2011 - 11:47pm PT
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FACT: FIFI EURHOES.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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May 31, 2011 - 11:50pm PT
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The trail branches are the first level of Gumby Filter.
What's next?
Fixed ropes stretching 1/3 of the way up El Cap?????
In my day, we'd imperil life and limb, lowering ourselves and our fat pigs to avoid the low branches. If we didn't duck down far enough, we'd get stuck in a hopeless Ent Trap. And our friends would have to come to the rescue.
Like camels passing through the Jerusalem gate known as the Eye Of The Needle, we'd get all the way down on our knees, and shuffle along until all clear, then struggle like hell to get back up on our feet. And then do it again. And again. And again.
Sawing branches off is for fags, wimps, pussies, poseurs and senile old ladies. And, for hill-billy schnitheads just off the Greyhound Bus from Arky-Saw.
EDIT:
Just for the record, I have a 42-inch bow saw that can easily take off a 6" live oak branch in fewer than thirty seconds. With even a crude saw like mine, taking off big branches is easy enough for any moron.
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Land of God-less fools
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May 31, 2011 - 11:54pm PT
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Pikers.
If they were pros, they would have burned that stuff when the conditions were right.
Like the Big Meadow fire.
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mrbaksh
Trad climber
Fort Worth, TX
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May 31, 2011 - 11:59pm PT
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Goldberg: Yes, and Don't get a peptic ulcer
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mrbaksh
Trad climber
Fort Worth, TX
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Tom: That's to much...maybe 1/10th, atleast on the Nose
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murcy
Gym climber
sanfrancisco
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To me this doesn't add up. Somehow they did it completely invisibly, over and over? Plus leaving "rings" and scorched ground and vegetation? And now the authorities are selling us this "likely story" of ordinary humans being responsible? I wasn't born yesterday.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Ok, ok.....
But what about damming and diverting rivers?
Who's the forest service feel about that?
I can put in some fish ladders, maybe, later, but that will be after the EIR has cleared the proper channels.
Cheers.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Tom: That's to much...maybe 1/10th, atleast on the Nose
FakeBlast goes about 1/3 of the way up, to Heart Ledge and Mammoth Terraces.
After considering what sort of idiot pyros would try burning freshly cut green wood, I am reminded of something the late, great Sam Kinneson said:
You know, as we were hauling all this food out here, though the endless desert, it sorta occurred to us that maybe there wouldn't be world hunger, if you people would live where the food is!
And then it occurred to me: the idiot pyros have never seen a real tree. They don't know green wood doesn't burn.
The idiot pyros come from the desert.
This is doubly true because America's Villians de Jour are Muslims: sand-dwelling lunatics. They must be the ones terrorizing our National Trails.
Either that, or it's the Brits. They cut the last of their trees down under Henry VIII.
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