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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Mar 15, 2006 - 11:51pm PT
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I'd be happy with either hammer, but right now, I am in the market for a hammer, and the one sitting on the rack at Sunrise, which is a BD, is looking like it will fit the bill. Mostly I need something for drilling holes.
Now having multiple hammers is probably a good thing. I'm still in...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 16, 2006 - 12:47am PT
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One of Dan's main comments was that this was the best hammer made for hand drilling as well due to the large, flat face (and that was what he mainly used it for...).
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Mar 24, 2006 - 02:01pm PT
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Is this hammer project dead or what???
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 24, 2006 - 03:07pm PT
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Nope, we just need to decide what we're actually doing and get on with it. What hammer do folks actually want to build? I had no luck with Forshee so you'd have to sort out the details of the McDevitt hammer if we're going that direction.
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T Moses
Trad climber
Paso Robles
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Mar 24, 2006 - 08:06pm PT
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Why don't you compare a McDevitt and an A5. Go out and smack the crap out of some pins, paste a copperhead, and drill a few bolts with each. That should tell you which one we should build. If you think the McDevitt should be attached like the A5 then make it so. If you need help let me know. Let's get it done!
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Mar 24, 2006 - 08:51pm PT
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Healyje,
Some observations;
If this goes to a commitee we'll never see these hammers in our lifetimes.
No project ever gets done perfectly.
So, my two cents. You got the idea. You found the molds, You got pricing. You got the rights to do it. Now just finish the job.
I'm not much of an aid climber and won't get bent out of shape whatever you decide. I will use the hammer if I have it. I'm just in this for the fun of it.
Thanks for all your work
Zander
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yo
climber
I'm so over it
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bump
?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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May 21, 2007 - 01:57am PT
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Healj?
How is your energy level and interest level these days on this?
thx,
M
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2007 - 04:54am PT
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Theron made a couple of blended A5/McDevitt prototype heads and Mineral's A5 hammer just got sent to the handle plant in Tennessee so they can see if they can once and for all figure out which one we're really talking about.
Yo, sorry I missed your 5/4 bump...
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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May 21, 2007 - 09:33am PT
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Haven't seen this thread for a while.
Looks like you are going with a machined version (sigh).
The "McDivett hammer" looks a bit primitive to me. When I had A5, I got similar looking (machined) hammer samples from a company in Asia (Young Chu, the same guy who got Cole started with boots) that was offering them to me for about $9 each, but after having started climbing with a forged Chouinard hammer (the original Yo hammer), I had to go with a forged design, which ended up costing over $50 each.
But I can understand why you're not going with the extra work of the forged design. It's kind of like art, I suppose, I don't think you'll get the "feel" of a forged hammer, but I'm sure it will be something that works.
Here's some pics of the first hammer batch back in 1986:
And some more hammer pics:
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Ben909
Trad climber
toronto
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May 21, 2007 - 09:52am PT
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Hey John,
I almost lost the hammer you gave to Anibal to airport security coming back from Cuba. Fifteen minutes of pleading in my non existant spanish did the trick. I wasn't able to convince them that the hammer was special, they just got tired of arguing with me. Never pounded any pins but it does the trick for bolts!
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T Moses
Trad climber
Paso Robles
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May 21, 2007 - 10:51am PT
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The Project is far from dead. We are actually gaining momentum. The Hammer Handles are the catch right now. The handle company is figuring out what the original handles were so they can send me two samples to mount and test. John, we haven't ruled out going with the forged head at all. We are looking at modifying the forging dies possibly. We would like to test a couple of slight tweaks to your excellent design first.
The Beaks are really moving along. I just did some CAD work on them last night after talking with Bryan about what will most likely be final tweaks.
Theron
P.S. Cool pics of the original production. I use a Bridgeport just like the one in the photo!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 21, 2007 - 11:03am PT
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Hey John,
Since you are the original source for a lot of the misinformation about placing heads with a hammer pick, do you still advocate packing copper with the hammer directly rather than using a punch, Arrow tip or other more suitable tool? The only time that I ever use the pick is to gently set the preshaped head into position to free up my hands. The rest of the operation never engages the pick, period. I am a journeyman carpenter, swing a 32oz. Vaughn on the job (none bigger) and am as true and accurate in my swing as anyone out there. You are fooling yourself if you think you are accurate enough to not flare the rock around the placement while forcefully pecking away up there. Just plain lousy and destructive technique at this point isn't it? Any defenders care to step up?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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May 21, 2007 - 11:20am PT
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I use chisels for heads. Agree w/ Steve above. Maybe a swing or two for pre-shaping and the first few whacks, but then the chisel.
The thing I haven't seen discussed too much here, though, is cleaning. I use the smaller tip of my BD hammer maybe about 1/3 of the time for cleaning. It's more accurate and allows me to hit a certain part of the pin in a certain direction. It also clears into corners better and generally allows one to have a biner on the pin w/o destroying it.
Can't imagine how you'd make any money by machining the head. Machining is generally very expensive, unless you plan on your head looking like a box. There are a lot of casting/forging options out there.
The BD hammer is perfection, though, and I already have one. Always liked the A5 version as well, but they were not as widely available.
JLP
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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May 21, 2007 - 11:35am PT
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Steve, not sure what reference you refer to. Personally, I find setting a #3 head or bigger with the pick of the hammer works well, then I X-em, paste-em, rock-em and sniff-em with a blunt chisel. Sometimes even a #2 can be initially set with the hammer, but not generally. I don't recall ever advocating placing heads completely with a hammer?
Though I am sure there must have been a time or two when I was strung out half free climbing and had to place and set a head with one hand, in which case the pick comes in mightily handy.
I sure hope you're not putting me in the rock bashing crowd; if it were true, you might be the only bonafide purist.
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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May 21, 2007 - 11:38am PT
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Hi Ben-
Remind me which hammer that was? I remember sending some gear down to Anibal, mostly buckles, materials and stuff (they're pretty crafty down there where gear is unavailable), but I don't think he ever got it (scarfed by Cuban customs?). Did I send him a hammer too?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 21, 2007 - 12:35pm PT
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John- I am not interested in pigeon holing you here at all. I read lots of references in this thread about designing the pick shape specifically for copperheading. The misinformation that I am referring to comes into play when the pick is used on smaller heads. I think lots of folks take your instruction too literally.
My personal technique is a little out of the mainstream. I don't even own a funkness device for instance. Copperheads can be a low impact option if placed and REMOVED responsibly with all due attention to rock degradation. They have also become a serious visual blight that unnecessarily degrades the overall aid climbing experience when mank ladders are the result. They have their place just as pitons do but should remain a last resort due to their propensity for being left fixed.
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T Moses
Trad climber
Paso Robles
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May 21, 2007 - 01:36pm PT
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So... Steve, care to enlighten us on how to place and remove copperheads?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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May 21, 2007 - 03:15pm PT
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Second the tmostion.
especially removal
balancing between testing lightly the smaller sizes...
thx!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2007 - 05:57pm PT
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John, those are fabulous pics, some real history there - thanks for posting those. As Theron said, we haven't made the decision yet as to just using the Ajax molds or not, just wanted to explore our options there. The changing of the guard at Link Handle is taking a bit of time to work through, but I think we're about there. I'd love to see some more discussion about hammers and heading. I need to look back and see what Eric K. posted up, but from my conversations it seems like the folks with McDevitt hammers are pretty attached to them and sound like their comments about the differences make sense, but then, I'm not really qualified to make that judgment - you old Valley guys are.
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