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Ezra Ellis
Trad climber
WA, & NC & Idaho
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Apr 17, 2011 - 03:12pm PT
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In the bozeman paper, he seems to acknowledge a "compression of time in the events", I'll give him artistic liberty on that one.
I hope he is not abusing the funds of CAI, that would be the most damning to me. I wouldn't necessarily trust the locals stories about not being Talib, especially if they are in fact Talib.
Krakauer, while a good writer doesn't seem to be entirely unbiased or truthful himself, especially with "In to thin air"
-I'll with hold judgment too!
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Apr 17, 2011 - 03:55pm PT
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this thread could easily turn into a krakauer bashing fest but...
im not qualified to call him a scumbag.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 17, 2011 - 04:55pm PT
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I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but note that the 60 Minutes is airing tonight 7/6 pm.
I'm gonna watch!
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Apr 17, 2011 - 04:59pm PT
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Considering how over-exerted the man has been with the project, I can easily see how he might have accepted the co-author's rendition of the story of Korphe. Perhaps he said something.."Dude, it was over such n such period" and the guy said "You'll bore your readers with such logistics. Remember, the book needs to BE read to be effective..." Or some such thing.
It's also very easy to see, from the readings of the books, that organization and details don't seem to be Mortenson's strong points. It's not hard to imagine accounting going through some growing pains as the organization developed. For those who would pooh pooh that notion, all I can say is thank your lucky stars that YOU have the ability to manage such facets of your own life so well. Not everybody does, and it is NOT an indication that they are trying to get over.
As for Krakauer, perhaps he too has been drawn in beyond what he intended(thought the "beautiful story, and it's a lie
quote is pretty damning). Maybe he found such discrepancies and did as he was paid - reported them. But didn't expect to be used as a point man in such a sensationalistic way. I will give him the benefit of the doubt on this matter.
I won't see the tv show - but will be interested in the comments afterward of those who might. My hope is that 60 Minutes realizes they are creating spin for the sake of viewership(is it Sweeps Week, by any chance?) and includes an adendum with Mortenson's response via the Bozeman article. Doubtful of course...
What ill timing as well - just diagnosed with a hole in his heart, and a medical procedure upcoming.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Apr 17, 2011 - 05:54pm PT
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Happi
Who has a hole in their heart--Greg M or Krak?
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Apr 17, 2011 - 06:17pm PT
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Mortenson. It was reported in the link I posted upthread, where he responded to the 60M claims. He will undergo some medical procedure this coming week, it also says.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Apr 17, 2011 - 06:18pm PT
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Frankly, doesn't sound good. When someone is collecting $30,000 for speaking fees discussing a cause, you might think that some of the speaking fee are also going to the cause, wouldn't you if you were organising the event? But the Bozeman article makes it sound like that's not the case.
Though I do think the work he has done is inspiring, there does exist the possibility that he's lost the plot.
Money seems to have that effect often.
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kwit
climber
california
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Apr 17, 2011 - 07:13pm PT
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anyone ever read roland barthes' "operation margarine" from his book mythologies? inure the public to greater systemic evils by pillorying minor, and possible false, evils, giving us a chance to purge our collective consciousness and rest easy that the bad apples have been thrown out.
if we want to look for real fraud and money mishandling in international aid affairs, i think we need to look a far sight over mortenson's head.
this is not to say any fraud is excusable; rather that we only have so much stored collective outrage and it would be a shame to squander it on something minor.
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Brandon-
climber
Done With Tobacco
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Apr 17, 2011 - 07:51pm PT
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inure the public to greater systemic evils by pillorying minor, and possible false, evils, giving us a chance to purge our collective consciousness and rest easy that the bad apples have been thrown out.
Kwit, I'll play devils advocate here. Who would you propose to be the bad guy in this model?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 17, 2011 - 08:18pm PT
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bump, 60 minutes story is on right now!
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Apr 17, 2011 - 08:23pm PT
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Stich, I would agree, in that the ends justifies the means in many cases.
But the only thing that irks me in this case is the fact that the whole aura of the school building project has been presented to the public as an act from a selfless persona. Collecting money from others for a charity, while keeping what sounds like over a million dollars from book royalties and speaking fees just strikes a wrong chord, in my opinion.
The MADD example is a bit different, as the purpose of that was more to create public opinion, not to raise money for a charity.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2011 - 08:36pm PT
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Thanks Gene!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 17, 2011 - 08:50pm PT
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Ho man!
And I almost bought a $100 dinner ticket last month.
JK has been pretty hard on some of my friends, but this rings too true.
A "hostage" photo with HIM holding the AK47? Private jets? Phantom schools?
Talk about taking a good idea and totally abusing it!
This guy is a fraud!
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2011 - 08:56pm PT
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Ouch. That stung.
The images of school buildings sitting vacant, uncompleted, or used for hay storage are pretty hard to defend. And then there are the ones claimed on a tax return that don't even exist!
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kwit
climber
california
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Apr 17, 2011 - 09:50pm PT
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hey brandon: not proposing any "bad guy" at all. i'm just pointing out that even if mortenson is a complete fraud (which is still a huge IF as far as i'm concerned), this ritual debunk-and-eviscerate minor players feeds our collective public need for spectacular bad guy purging, and when we're done, we feel we've done our moral work, while the really big bad guys and problems (those of wall street provenance, for example) that we aren't sure how to solve, continue to profit and exist. in short, our local witch hunts make us feel like the system is working (60 minutes exposes another scam!), when in fact it is desperately broken.
mortenson, however dubiously, brought to light tremendous regional problems, poverty, and thus potential for international aid. his mismanagement and sketchy ethics should not go unresolved, but what damage to we do by vilifying him so publicly and sensationally?
just something to think about.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 17, 2011 - 10:02pm PT
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Happi:
60 MINUTES located three of the men in the photo, all of whom denied that they were Taliban and denied that they had kidnapped Mortenson. One the men in the photo is the research director of a respected think tank in Islamabad, Mansur Khan Mahsud. He tells Kroft that he and the others in the photo were Mortenson’s protectors, not his kidnappers. “We treated him as a guest and took care of him,” says Mahsud. “This is totally false and he is lying.” Asked why Mortenson would lie about the trip, Mahsud replies, “To sell his book.”"
So - the news is asking us to believe purported Taliban members. Wasn't it last year's theme that the Taliban was a bunch of (insert very negative and derogatory phrases)?
Krakauer is quoted as saying "It’s a beautiful story. And it’s a lie."
I DO hope that Krakauer is shown to be libel in that statement. It shouldn't be difficult at all to find those climb mates and have them sign affidavits if their story holds water.
The article also says Mortenson didn't respond to their inquiry. Perhaps the organization will see they have a need for a PR contact. They requested an interview, and he didn't respond. Looking at the Calender of Events which shows his scheduled appearances (link: http://www.threecupsoftea.com/events/calendar/); it's not really hard to imagine he may not have felt it all that urgent to speak to them. A person who is hiding something - well, maybe they would rush to defend themselves. But a person who hasn't got time for the bullshit drama of others....no.
I'm not sure why you would ever believe climb mates affidavits, if you believe that a respected research director is a "purported Taliban member".
You obviously did not google "Mansur Khan Mahsud". The results are pretty clear cut.
60 minutes is the highest profile media in America, the source of all money. For a charity, it is truly the "golden goose". No rational person would pass up a chance to appear on behalf of their charity......unless there was a reason.
Krakauer, a Pulitzer award finalist, has been scrutinized by pros, over and over. He has a reputation for truth, even when painful.
I just got Greg's book, and anticipate the reading.
It does seem that a salary (on top of expenses) of $141,075 is rather generous.
In addition, charity watchdogs appear to have a problem with what his group is doing, financially. It appears that all expenses involved with his talks is charged to the charity, but Greg pockets the $30,000 speakers fee, without any of it going to the charity. That is not kosher.
http://www.charitywatch.org/articles/CentralAsiaInstitute.html
http://www.bbb.org/charity-reviews/national/human-services/central-asia-institute-in-bozeman-mt-28
From it's online financial report:
income $13,686,792
Spent on it's programs: $800,000-$1,000,000
That is a hell of a difference.
http://www2.guidestar.org/PartnerReport.aspx?partner=justgivews&ein=51-0376237
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 17, 2011 - 10:07pm PT
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There is a hell of a lot of defending of Greg on this thread, and a variety of defenses.
They all appear to come down to "well, he seems so sincere!"
And, perhaps he is.
but I would remind you that is EXACTLY what they said about Bernie Maddoff, and they say about all con men. That is what these guys are good at, gaining your confidence.
All I would suggest, is that a healthy dose of scepticism, for ALL aspects of this story, are in order.
you might want to start googling around, as I've started to do. It is not hard to come up with some quick conclusions.
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