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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Mar 22, 2011 - 11:28pm PT
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Funny stuff. Stereotypes are funny. Funny for the lies they perpetuate, and funny for the truth they contain.
Somewhere on ST I've mentioned this before, but this thread is certainly the perfect place to repeat it. I was talking with someone I didn't know very well a few years ago. She was Danish. I'm Canadian. We were in the US somewhere. And we got talking about national stereotypes and how silly they were. "However," I said, "there is one that seems pretty on-target. Swedes are generally perceived as really nice people."
The look on her face could have curdled milk from 20 meters. "Swedes," she said, her voice dripping venom, "are just Germans disguised as humans."
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Thanks for the cartoons Lolli. They're great.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 23, 2011 - 09:53am PT
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Maceo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTwk_R4spCs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YRHclr3tL0)and Stereotypes. a great way to start the morning...
Lenin stayed a while in Sweden on his way to keep his opointment to step on a tank in Leningrad. He said in his diary that he liked the Swedes; "Like effecient Americans, or Good Germans."
The " Maus a Survivor's Tale" comics had various animal representations for racial/national/ethnic stereotypes; Jews were Mice, Germans were big mean cats, Swedes were reindeer, I can't remember what the French and the Canadians were... I'll have to look it up.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 23, 2011 - 12:38pm PT
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Bonus info: The irony of the flag-burning? According to tradition, the only way to get rid of Dannebrog (name of the Danish flag) without offending it, is to burn it. :D "
Wow that's deep.
Actaully the American flag is supposed to retired exactly same way (by burning)--perhaps all flags are, I don't know.
I imagaine all of the "stereotypes" in the cartoons are about equally as meaningful.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Mar 23, 2011 - 03:08pm PT
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PopLockFool,
Did full East Arete of Mt. Humphreys (5.5) this winter too and to my surprise East Arete of Carl Heller (although 4th class as summer rating in summer) was considerably tougher, and had more insecure technical climbing. Bob Burd finds it interesting, do you think I care if you do? ahahaha : ) Which winter ascents did you do this winter? Why don't you write about yours if mine are too wussy for your taste.
If you think there is a way that route is 3rd class during winter it just shows your ignorant stupidity. How about you get out there and 3rd class it in the next few weeks. There is a reason people get out there in May (when sheep closure used to be lifted), with trad gear, and still turn around if the snow pack is considerable.
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wallyvirginia
Big Wall climber
Stockholm, Sweden
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Mar 23, 2011 - 05:03pm PT
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- The look on her face could have curdled milk from 20 meters. "Swedes," she said, her voice dripping venom, "are just Germans disguised as humans."
Oh, hell no! =) Hahaha!
I checked out of a camp site in Scotland once. I handed my credit card to the cashier. It wouldn't work. Perhaps there was a technical error, perhaps I was out of money..
 Is there a problem? I asked.
No no no, he answered me in a thick scottish accent, but if there was a problem, it would be with the french!
He gave me the card back with a laugh, let me stay for free..
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squishy
Mountain climber
sacramento
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Mar 23, 2011 - 05:14pm PT
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Anyone know what's in the ball on top of an American flag pole? (or is suppose to be)
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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Mar 23, 2011 - 05:16pm PT
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Think "contoured for your pleasure"
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213
climber
Where the Froude number often >> 1
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Mar 23, 2011 - 05:20pm PT
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Lolli keep the cartoons comin! Scandinavian humor rocks :)
+1 for Mother Canada!!!!
Now let's slay the trolls!
This past weekend I climbed ice in Lee Vining, weekend before did a winter ascent of a classic East Arete of Carl Heller (which may be a first winter ascent of that classic route btw)...will put out a trip report about Carl Heller some time soon, was a nice trip.
My friend Matt soloed the East Ridge of Carl Heller in February back in 2001 (among other winter solo climbs he did while living in CA, now he lives on Maui and windsurfs, go figure)...do you even have the slightest clue about the history of the Sierra??? Clearly the answer is no, for if you did, you would not make such ridiculous claims. Study up! Here's a hint: INCREDIBLE accomplishments occur on a regular basis in this range and go unreported. Why? Cuz most of us realize that we are doing it for ourselves! Plus cameras are heavy.
Maybe focus on leading at the 5.8 standard...and not bivying all the time before you bring your poor attitude here. Hubris will lead you to nasty outcomes (in life and on Supertopo) while humility will lead you to great things. Remember the beginner's mind...
And if you'd like my resume I can email it to you, but you better have a good internet connection ;)
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Mar 23, 2011 - 07:38pm PT
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My friend Matt soloed the East Ridge of Carl Heller in February back in 2001 (among other winter solo climbs he did while living in CA, now he lives on Maui and windsurfs, go figure)...do you even have the slightest clue about the history of the Sierra??? Clearly the answer is no, for if you did, you would not make such ridiculous claims. Study up! Here's a hint: INCREDIBLE accomplishments occur on a regular basis in this range and go unreported.
Do you by any chance have a link to the photos he took while on route?
I do not think I was bragging in any way, just answered the question of what I climbed lately. I thought of climbing this ridge route for a LONG time and it was a special climb TO ME. I am proud of doing it and do not give a sh#t what you think of it. I did not say it was first, but said it MAY be first, because in every report I previously read people talk about waiting till snow melts off, avoiding snow, and turning around as soon as they see considerable snow on it. Even Doug Robinson said somewhere here that doing this route in winter is classic and he would like to do it one day. So you can shove your resume in your anus, I care less about yours. I am out there for my own fun/adventure, not to impress mighty 213 internet climbing guru.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Mar 23, 2011 - 07:48pm PT
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It wouldn't be buried under the snow? D'oh!
Boys, boys, take it outside.
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213
climber
Where the Froude number often >> 1
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Mar 23, 2011 - 07:52pm PT
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no pics from him, he doesn't own a camera. he just got a cell phone last year. if you want you can call him, he'd be stoked you went up there too. he is quite against summit registers and considers them trash as do I. leave no trace, eh?
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srathbun
Ice climber
Redding
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Mar 23, 2011 - 08:30pm PT
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Are you talking the person Shredder? Or the climbing spot known as The Shredding?
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srathbun
Ice climber
Redding
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Mar 23, 2011 - 08:32pm PT
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Yes, he is a good friend.
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srathbun
Ice climber
Redding
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Mar 23, 2011 - 09:32pm PT
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Done.
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PellucidWombat
Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
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Mar 24, 2011 - 12:18am PT
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Vitaliy and Shane - you guys gotta remember to use stereotypes to your advantage here. You let a couple of arrogant aggressive dickheads suck you into a stupid and meaningless argument that affected you far more than it should.
For the future, remember the following stereotype and how to deal with it, whether it is on ST, SP, or the world outside of the internet:
Arrogant Aggressive Dickhead (AAD)(similar to Internet Troll, School Bully)(Photo Example)
The arrogance stems from their gross and overt narcissism in believing that they are THE expert and that they are in a position to brazenly judge others, no matter how far the topic is outside of their expertise or actual experience (why bother considering the details and what you might not know if you already know your answer?). As long as they have a few good credentials, they can put on a good show of looking like they actually know what they are talking about in many related areas, legitimately or not. In fact, they often make it a point to leverage that experience as much as possible, even going to the point of using associations with respected and/or experienced people to buttress the wisdom and respectability of their attacks.
Tact, modesty, and politeness don't belong in their expert comments because there is no such need to if they are 100% right. Of course they rarely, if ever, admit error or wrongdoing, nor apologize even if their attack was on a mistaken premise. The arrogance also clouds the AAD's ability to read subtle humor and sarcasm, which adds to the "dickead" aspect, but it can also make it fun to play with them.
The aggressive behavior often stems from their own personal insecurities, which may be far removed from the topic at hand. There is no better way to make yourself feel important and inflate your ego than to either build yourself up through incessant bragging (this goes beyond sharing a good story or proud accomplishment at appropriate places & times), or to tear others down (this goes beyond friendly criticism or disagreement). In fact, the arrogance part of this stereotype is often a faux display to help with inflating their ego. And what better way to show how knowledgeable and experienced you are than to put others in their place, right?
And lastly the dickhead behavior is just being a stupid, irritating, or ridiculous person. This is pretty self explanatory, but one common aspect to point out for the AAD stereotype is their fuzzy and often self-contradictory logic. One example that comes to mind is the dickhead ripping on someone for how stupid or inexperienced they are because they don't know some "obvious and common" information, and then moments later bragging about the same information being a little known secret of which the dickhead is one of the elite few who was privy to it.
How to deal with Arrogant Aggressive Dickheads
Dickheads feed off of attention, so without attention the AAD quickly dies, as without a dick or a head there can be no arrogance.
Think of it this way: When I feel like being a dickhead to Vitaliy, I make that one joke that always really gets on his nerves (you both know the one I'm talking about!). I know he hates it, and I've told him that the fastest way to get me to stop making it is to stop reacting to it. It's V's reaction more than the joke that I derive pleasure from. Of course, this is me being just a plain "dickhead" or a "smartass dickhead" as I do it in friendly jest. This is far different from the aggressive dickhead. Aggressive dickheads exhibit this behavior in serious ways, and the more public the forum, the better.
So the next time a potential AAD shows up, at first treat them like a person deserving your respect and attention just in case they actually aren't an AAD. Address any points they make, if valid, and then move on. If they called you on a fault, admit it, but if you're confident in your opinion, stand by it.
However, their attacks don't require constant justification, especially if they are redundant, without merit (in the eyes of those who's opinion you care about), are obviously irrational (why try to reason with an unreasonable person?) or are just plain obvious AAD behavior. In fact, constant justification makes you look weaker and can add legitimacy to their attacks while fueling their motivation to keep it up. Have the confidence to let them lower others' opinion of them without dragging you down with them. We can all name a number of characters on both ST & SP who have a commanding presence online, but are the butt of many informal jokes among the climbing community in the real world. The joy of the internet is they're making an ass of themselves worldwide!
If your point is made and they keep taunting you (or new AADs pop up with the same taunts), you have no need to let them waste your time or drain your emotions. Just move on and enjoy life! Life is too short to waste on these types anyways . . .
P.S. Lolli, sorry for being off topic, even on an OT thread! This just seemed called for.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Mar 24, 2011 - 01:50am PT
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True, no need to communicate with people like that...have a great climbing year 213!
Sorry to interrupt your thread Lolli : ) Loved the stereotype for Chernobyl, you should check out a ST thread on it. Very interesting stuff...
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Mar 24, 2011 - 02:37pm PT
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you got me on that one. I can't figure out how the Danish flag is different from Sweden except in color.
well yeah! I noticed that. I thought it was a pun on the flags themselves, not a slur on the Danish character!
As Jaybro said "D'oh"
carry on....
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 24, 2011 - 02:43pm PT
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D'oh!
...Dressed for sex?
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