Chopping the Central Pillar Anchors? Pro or Con?

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August West

Trad climber

Where the wind blows strange

Jan 15, 2006 - 02:30pm PT

I wasn't in favor of chopping of the bolts, I'm just saying it wouldn't force me to top out and there are preferable ways to get down without rapping the route. And yes, you would have to leave something behind at belay 5 (if the bolts were gone). And yes, there are a lot of reasons why parties don't make it to pitch 5.

From Karl:

"You can already rap with double ropes from the top of pitch 5 and not use Central pillar anchors. The first rap goes to the newish bolted face route out right. Much better for the parties on Central Pillar to rap out left."

Route out right? Is this as you are facing down? Or is there something else that is west (downriver)?

It is true that you can get down without using the Central Pillar anchors, but you end up on the BW. The BW isn't the zoo that CP is, but if you ever try the BW it is a pain to have climbers coming down on you who didn't even go up that route. One more bolted anchor on the face would mean you could easily get down without interfering with any route and the ropes would pull very nicely. Or has there already been some change since the last time I did this route a few years ago?

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2006 - 02:39pm PT

I'll have to edit that post. Somehow I confuse "Right" and "Left" (no politics intended) and I meant out left.

It is possible to rap from the bolts under the roof 200 feet from the ground. It seems like those would be accessible from the bolts on the little ledge two or three pitches up BW. I don't have the topo down at the cabin.

Nice post Ben. Clears up misunderstandings, straightforward and with a name.

It helps clear things up andI don't think ropes should be left hanging for weeks either.

Peace

Karl

1096

Social climber

hell

Jan 15, 2006 - 06:32pm PT

Ben Zartman
Ah hit a nerve eh? You tell a different story from what Ron said. He said you were talking about taking his ropes and gear while he watching you and that you 2 were VERY AGRO towards him?

All I can say is that people like you suck thinking you own the cliffs and have the right to remove gear, bolts, ropes or whatever. Leave stuff ALONE!

Ben Wah

Social climber

Jan 15, 2006 - 07:06pm PT

1096:

Again too craven to give a name?

Sure Ron heard us discussing whether to take the rope down; the acoustics at Arch are something else in that you can hear people talking from the road, but you cannot hear your partner on the pitch. Its a pretty neat phenomenon. But I digress.
Though we discussed taking it down, we never discussed taking the rope away-I would have left it coiled at the base where its owner could have found it.
He was a little steamed up, but no one ever got agro: I think you are exaggerating again. We had what I thought was a pretty frank discussion about fixed lines and added bolts (he was kind of grumpy that someone had chopped 'Coffin Nail' just recently), and parted on friendly terms.
Perhaps you should ask Ron himself his side of the story, instead of repeating the third- or fourth-hand version you seem to have.
Since you bring it up, I have no wish to dictate how people climb, but I have every wish to keep my right to climb intact. That is why I agitate for less climber impact at the crags. No one can disagree that lessening visual impact and cleaning up after ourselves can only be a good thing.
Regards,
Ben

Roger Breedlove

Trad climber

Cleveland Heights, Ohio

Jan 15, 2006 - 07:42pm PT

Hey Ben, help a guy out. What is agro??? I am confused: Agro-cultural, agro-pastoral, agro-ecological, Agro-processing--isn't ND all cleaned out by now?

Really my real name: Roger Breedlove

Largo

Sport climber

Venice, Ca

Jan 15, 2006 - 11:10pm PT

I remember doing Serenity in the early 70s with Kauk, who followed the crux pitch in bare feet. No sh#t. I remember us both thinking the thing was a pinned-out junker even back then, so it vexes me that folks are so invested in that route.

On the other hand, Central Pillar is mint, probably because from the very start it was protected with nuts. Chopping stuff on that route is plain silly, since there's so much traffic on it and the bolts make all that rapping easier and safer.

Way off topic, but the five-pitch corner just right of Central Pillar also goes free at tough 5.11, with an all time, 120 foot fingertip lyback on the 2nd lead. But I think it's all overgrown now. Always meant to try and force that route all the way to the top (from the blocky ledge it shares with CP atop pitch 5), but never go round to it. That's a project I suggest to those who are living in the Trench and want something new and interesting to do. the undercling/roof just off the bolcky ledge ain't gonna be easy . . .

JL

JL

Ben Wah

Social climber

Jan 15, 2006 - 11:51pm PT

Roger:

It is a shortened form of 'agressive'
I'm betting you knew that
All the best,
Ben

WBraun

climber

Jan 16, 2006 - 12:13am PT

Hey joe mini-traxion

Roger Breedlove

Trad climber

Cleveland Heights, Ohio

Jan 16, 2006 - 12:24am PT

So Werner, is that do-hickey used to self belay so one can run laps on a route?

Ben, aggressive crossed my mind, but I searched Gooooooogle and the hypenated words in my list are the only things that came up. As you can tell, I don't get out much.

John, I always figured that the Chouinard Pratt route was dirt filled. It is the main drainage for the u-shaped bowl. I am surprised that you could get up the lower pitches at all.

Roger

WBraun

climber

Jan 16, 2006 - 12:35am PT

No they take them down, and they are not tight. They hang

Off season in the winter on a few select routes we do laps to stay in shape.

What shape do you have?

I don't want to free solo all those routes I used to do. I have to live too.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 16, 2006 - 12:54am PT

I'm in shape

Round is a shape

Holdplease2

Big Wall climber

Yosemite area

Jan 16, 2006 - 01:55am PT

Karl, that was awesome.

-Kate.

johnkelley

climber

Anchorage Alaska

Jan 16, 2006 - 06:09am PT

Poolish(sp?) - Sorry to inform you that Zack Martin, from Georgia, was killed in a car wreck a few years back, hopefully there's another Zack. Also noticed you're in Athens. Great little city, grew up there.

On another note, the so called AKclimber is nothing more than a f*#king poser! Please DO NOT let his post influence you view of Alaskan climbers, he's not one. Just another wanker.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Jan 16, 2006 - 07:27am PT

[Warning: Momentary Thread Drift]

ThomasKeefer: "...because he had decided years back that CT would remain bolt free forever and then people put bolts where needed who were from out of state."

I'm in no way going to defend Ken's past or recent attacks in Western Mass, but the above statement is entirely without merit. CT's tradition was always trad and no "people put bolts where needed" because no bolts were needed and they were repeatedly warned. Every bolt war has two sides and while I don't support either his reactions or a great deal of his personal behavior, I get way sick of everyone laying the NE bolt wars solely on Ken. He was very much provoked over time before exploding in the original bolt war. Much of his behavior during and after that war was unfortunate in the extreme, but it was in no way unprovoked. Unfortunately, I have exhausted all means I had of attempting to contact Ken regarding his rationale, if any, for this current round of chopping which, given his total silence, appears to have simply been an unprovoked reminder. But nevertheless, ThomasKeefer, you should stick to commenting on things you actually know something about in the future...

Roger Breedlove

Trad climber

Cleveland Heights, Ohio

Jan 16, 2006 - 08:53am PT

Karl's shape quip has an antecedent here in ST land.

In a thread titled "Ape Index Registry," dated 7 March 2003, Brutus of Wyde responded:

Minus 15.

wingspan compared to circumference.

Brutus (of Wyde)

"I'm in shape. Round is a shape."

I don't know if his was the first, since Brutus places it is quotes, but it is just as funny now.

Darnell

Big Wall climber

Chicago

Jan 16, 2006 - 11:08am PT

It's not time to replace the bolt on serenity,it'stime to chop the bolt on Texas flake.
Well, not chop but pull out, I tried to pull it last summer but I did not have a big enough hex wrench to pull that euro crap.

Jobee

Social climber

El Portal

Jan 16, 2006 - 11:14am PT

Hey Werner!

Thanks for the spelling correction..Icoud'ntreedthaboxweneyebotit!

Ron sure would get a kick outta all this squakin!

See you at the Cookie..

..Nice thread Ba Ba.

jw

Can't we all just get along?!!