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Friend
climber
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Aug 19, 2016 - 02:55pm PT
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I agree with the above post. ALL the above posts. I look at ST a lot less these days because it's always the same couple dipshits with the same tired schtick, but I always pause to read any comment by the Warbler. Keep on keepin on man. I hope to meet you at the crags one of these days.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Aug 19, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
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Thanks for inspiring and sharing - love what you add to the conversations here. Thanks for being a great standard for a climber and a person.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Aug 19, 2016 - 09:24pm PT
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He sure plays a mean chainsaw. Which is not to say he is mean or mean spirited.
Saw him surfing in Baja once. He cut me off apparently without thinking. :)
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Aug 20, 2016 - 09:00am PT
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Like we say in Otay, yanqui go home.
Ensenada, 1955 - Decoratiaon Day (credit Howard Rozelle)
La Jolla, 1955 (same)
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couchmaster
climber
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Appreciation still bump. The man walked the path he wanted. Not even saying I agreed with him, but he made sense on most occasions and was never angry in his replies. Unfortunately, there is no tolerance any more. Respeckt.
ps, is Ron Kauk trying to suck in his gut in that photo up there? I have that photofeat mastered- in fact, I easily go from whale to mermaid in most shots, if he should need any tips.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Sep 11, 2018 - 10:57am PT
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and finally
Male Black-throated Warbler (Jamaica)
Cliff notes
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 15, 2018 - 02:39pm PT
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Sadly, CMAC & RJ have seen fit to vaporize all of Kevin Worrall's writings on the Supertopo forum.
Kevin always, to my knowledge, comported himself very well in his communication here on the forum, especially so on the controversial threads which got him banned and his entire retinue of posts deleted.
That's the part of it that just seems wrong: he rarely, if ever used foul language or invective. If so, then very, very rarely, but I never saw it. Certainly he was persistent with some of his views, which was his downfall, as I understand it.
CMAC and RJ don't make sense, from the standpoint of valuing historicity and respect for rational discourse.
Game over, for a metric ton of valuable stories, insight, and commentary, from one of the most valued members of our climbing community, Kevin Worrall.
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snakefoot
climber
Nor Cal
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Oct 15, 2018 - 03:01pm PT
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^^^ Agreed, dude is legit!
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johntp
Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
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Oct 15, 2018 - 03:11pm PT
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CMAC and RJ don't make sense, from the standpoint of valuing historicity and respect of rational discourse.
Gotta agree. The choices of who to ban is strange from my perspective. Can think of a few posters that deserve sending down the circular drain more than Kevin. Was he strong in his opinions? Yes, but so are many on the forum.
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shylock
Social climber
mb
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Oct 15, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
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really sucks, guy was a true og who posted some awesome stuff about the valley. i thought one of the most valuable posters when it came to climbing related stuff. i have no idea about the other stuff, but what the heck.
i can't imagine anything he said was so offensive that it was worth losing all his posts about california climbing. the backbone of supertopo, after all..
thank goodness to clint for saving his pitch by pitch of milestone. don't even know what was all lost though.
https://web.stanford.edu/~clint/yos/milestone.htm
before bashing too much on the poeple who run the site though, can someone explain how a disappearance like this really goes down? is it actually what everyone is saying? they just deleted him and all his posts?
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johntp
Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
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Oct 15, 2018 - 05:11pm PT
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can someone explain how a disappearance like this really goes down? is it actually what everyone is saying? they just deleted him and all his posts?
Good question. As I recall there was some discussion on this previously; don't remember the content. Some former posters have asked to have their account and posts deleted. Don't think that was the case in this case.
I don't even care if the user asks for it to be deleted, it's here and some momentary sour grapes shouldn't have us throwing out the good with the bad.
+1 on that.
Didn't always agree with the Warbler's opinions, but reading the account of he and Chappy doing the FA of Widow's Tear's is a standout read.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Oct 15, 2018 - 05:27pm PT
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Can't really comment until I know all the facts.....but it would be crazy to get rid of threads that contain stories and history of climbing.
Just returned home today after 3 days in Oakdale. One of the most incredible campfires I have ever been to. Stories and anecdotes never or rarely heard before from the most awesome rock pioneers who gave their time to share so the history won't be entirely lost.
I don't believe Chris et al would wipe out the entirety threads that contain valuable information.
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johntp
Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
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Oct 15, 2018 - 05:34pm PT
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so the history won't be entirely lost.
Was it recorded? In the Bridwell Memorial thread several wrote it was recorded by many, but haven't seen anything that shares the video of that event. It is lost to most if not made available to those that couldn't be there.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Oct 15, 2018 - 05:42pm PT
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How on earth can someone get banned from an unmoderated forum??
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Oct 15, 2018 - 05:56pm PT
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I don't believe Chris et al would wipe out the entirety threads that contain valuable information.
Lynne, I wish I could agree with you. Once valuable, historical content has been deleted from ST, its mostly gone forever.... like everything The Warbler posted here.
Below is Kevin's account of the FA of Widow's Tears from the Wayback Machine. It's GONE from the Taco now.
(this entire link needs to be copied and pasted in its entirety to work): https://web.archive.org/web/20171021090628/http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=294566&tn=0&mr=0
The Warbler
climber
the edge of America
Dec 17, 2006 - 11:10am PT
Mark and I didn't have much ice experience to draw from when we decided to try to do the Widow's Tears. We had a whole lot more afterwards, that's for sure. Myself, I had only done the top of Sentinel Falls with Mark and Jim Orey, Mark had some time on ice before that.
We were the first climbers to winter in Camp Four that I know of, and to spice things up we took to the frozen waterfalls. Sentinel Falls got us excited about it and we turned our attention to the big one down the Valley with the ominous name. The Widow's Tears had drawn the attention of many of the few top ice climbers in America. Chouinard was interested we heard, Porter made an attempt, and we met Mike Weis and Jeff Lowe for the first time on the road below the Tears one day when were they drove by as we were scoping it.
The first time we went up there just to get a look up close. The Widow's Tears ampitheater is an awesome place, stunningly beautiful in every season I've been there, and in winter the sparkling white ice against the dark stone draws the eye up to the sky and stirs the deepest of climbing urges. The line falls in a gentle spiral turning 90 degrees from top to bottom in over a thousand feet. It is broken into three almost equal length sections by two ledge systems that sweep from one buttress to the other, adding to the symmetrical architecture of the ampitheater. We convinced each other we could climb it.
What we lacked in experience we made up for in free time. We were able to wait and wait until the thing was climable, if only barely. I think we did the approach six times before we got up it. One of our efforts was especially memorable...
Frank Brown (Jr.), longtime Broiler Room waiter, climber and all around good guy wanted to share in our adventure and offered to help us carry loads. He sweetened the deal with a loan of some ice screws and we couldn't say no. We all did the approach and stomped out a bivy platform in the snow near the watercourse so we could conveniently fill our bottles. At 2 AM we awoke to freezing rain and by 3 it was a full on snowstorm and we decided to bail. Thought we lost Frank at one point on the descent when he busted through a snow ledge and disappeared down the slabs into the darkness. He stopped about forty feet down on a ledge and was rattled but OK. We got back to the car in a rainstorm just before dawn.
That afternoon we were dismayed to see that a hundred feet of the route was gone. Fortunately, immediately after the storm there was a cold snap and in a few days it had reformed and looked doable again. When we hiked back up for another go (without Frank) we were met by a sobering sight when we reached the slabs below the snow bowl. Big ice chunks were strewn around in the forest, remnants of the section that fell, and when we gained the snow bowl we realized that the icefall had scoured the fall line down to rock in a thirty foot wide swath taking our bivi platform with it.
That night we bivied well to the side of the watercourse and walked to fill our bottles.
The next morning we finally started climbing. The first pitch was my first lead on ice, and I found my way up on the thin, sometimes seethrough ice slowly. I only placed one screw, straight down into the thick ice on a ledge, mostly I placed pins where I could and ran it where I couldn't. I finally reached a nice ledge on the right side of the flow with one bolt from a previous attempt by someone. Mark led quickly up the last steep section and found a belay in the back of a hanging snow bowl with rock anchors. Our excitement turned to disappointment though, when we discovered one of Mark's crampons had lost some allen screws and was useless. Another descent, this one especially frustrating due to the perfect conditions we finally had.
We returned that night after scrounging some screws on the Valley floor, and the next day climbed to the high point of the first traverse ledge by about one o'clock. We crossed the ice flow and pondered the next section from an alcove on the right side of the ice. The next pitch was the steepest of the route, twenty feet of 90 degree ice slowly easing to 75 degrees over its length. As I psyched for it though, ice chunks began raining down sporatically and we realized what was happening. As it was already March, late in the season, the afternoon sun was melting ice on the rim, and as it fell it was finding its way to the fall line- our route. We made our first smart decision and set up a bivy in a cave with a good view of the next day's climbing. The bivy was wet and plagued by a small but incredibly aggressive mouse, but we had a decent night's sleep.
The next morning I cast off on the steepest ice I had climbed. When I went to place the first screw I nervously fumbled it and it fell to stop bridged between the toes of my Super Guides. I set a pick and carefully reached down to retrieve it. Which brings up a factor I haven't mentioned- our gear selection was pathetic. Five or six screws and a few warthogs, which made the one I dropped real important. One 80 cm axe, one 60 cm Chouinard piolet, and one Chouinard alpine hammer. The leader had to lower the tools for the second to use following. All wool clothing- no pile, no gortex, no helmets, no headlamps.
My lead deteriorated into 80 degree frozen snow plastered in a corner, and the rockclimber in me pushed me close to the possible pin placements on the edge of the waterfall. Axe shafts to the hilt and kicking steps got me slowly higher, along with laybacking the edge of the ice where it met the rock. After what seemed like hours I reached a spot where I could belay and brought Mark up. The steps I had kicked blew out on him several times, but we were past the steepest climbing. He moved out onto the open ice on the next lead, and found good screw placements. His belay put us within an easy pitch of the second traverse ledge.
Upon reaching the ledge we realized we were threatened by the same falling ice situation as before and we didn't think we could top out before dark anyway, so we decided on another bivy. As we only planned on one night on the route we had little to eat and our down bags were wet. We saved a small cube of cheese for the following day and settled in for what was a long grim night for a couple of California rockclimbers.
The first pitch of the next day was the funnest of the whole route. Good solid ice, moderate angle, exhilarating exposure as the steep part of the waterfall lay just below. I was feeling good on my points and strung the rope out between screws, it was starting to look like we were gonna pull it off. I reached a belay with rock anchors sheltered below a small overhang and Mark followed.
His lead was the steepest on the last day and I was glad he had to deal with it. When he started up it the ice was different and we soon realized that it was because it was the section that had recently fallen and reformed. The whole thing was hollow, thick enough, but hollow, with the sound of running water underneath it. Mark was gripped but making progress and I had resorted to slumping over at the belay to protect my head from the shrapnel he was creating with his tools. I was rudely jolted from my isolation when I felt a sudden blow to my shoulder. The blood rushed out of my head and for a second I thought I was going to black out from the adrenaline rush. A big chunk of ice had just missed my head and the impact combined with the lack of food and my exhaustion momentarily overwhelmed me. I snapped back just in time to hear an utterance from above followed by the sound of jingling hardware, and the rope jerked taut banging my head into the roof of my belay station.
Mark had taken a good twenty footer, but was OK. I was afraid he might hand me the sharp end, but he just got mad and got back up there and sent it. When I followed his lead I was shocked to look through holes in the ice and see it separated from the rock by a foot in places. The hollow horrorshow ended at an ice roof that crossed the waterfall where the section had detatched previously, and a different challenge presented itself.
The next pitch entered what is really a steep gully with the left side being nearly vertical for 150 ft to the rim. The back of the gully is lower angle but was filled with honeycombed frozen water, unprotectable by screws. I set off kicking steps searching with my picks for anything that would hold them, mostly they just bottomed out and raked down the rock. I put falling out of my mind and carefully moved up on my feet, leaving Mark behind and climbing without protection for forty or fifty feet. Finally I got some protection pins in rock ribs that emerged from the crunchy white stuff, and worked my way to a good rock belay putting us within a short lead of the rim. Mark quickly was up to the top. It was just getting dark when I summited and we collapsed in the snow to watch an especially serene full moon rise over Yosemite Valley.
The epic wasn't quite over. After packing up our gear, we wallowed upwards through waistdeep snow to the forest on the Valley rim, then west to a steep couloir. An hour of sliding, groveling and semi controlled falls brought us to the road at the Wawona tunnel. We had no car, so we walked nearly to Sentinel before someone came along and gave us a ride. We collected all the change we could find when we got back to camp and spent it on junk food in the vending machines at the Lodge at 3AM.
The section of ice that Mark fell on fell off again three days later, and the climb never reformed that season.
The Widow's Tears is an ethereal creature, demanding patience, good timing, and determination from her suitors. When it's set up it offers a real alpine experience right in Yosemite Valley. Doing it in a day is the way to go if you're an experienced ice climber, we were happy to just survive and get up the thing. Let's hope global warming doesn't make the climb even more elusive.
and further down the same thread:
The Warbler
climber
the edge of America
Dec 18, 2006 - 11:44am PT
Hey Peter- how bout that Bridwell? He was the master of sending wide eyed innocents out on dicey terrain. He always had a good reason for not doing it himself, and he knew we all were anxious to win approval in his Valley. It sure made a kid push himself.
Are you talking photos of Lynda and friends nude sunbathing or the Widow's Tears? I'm sure most of these fellers would rather see the latter, but alas, I have neither, Mark might have both. I'm hoping he'll post up with his perspective on the Tears.
I always wished the Valley would get a winter that made all the incredible possibilities there doable.
So bust out a tale of the Strand solo for us! That route's got a lot more steep on it than her sister, I remember seeing Mike Graham hobbling back to camp after pitching off the first lead on a FA attempt, can't recall who he was with. What's up with the solo idea?!
Some people just don't care about Yosemite history.... including CMac.
Easiest "fix" is to have an admin delete everything....
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 15, 2018 - 06:05pm PT
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Locker, Tami, and Cosgrove requested all of their posts be deleted.
Kevin Worrall did not.
Sometimes, entire threads are deleted when the "moderators" field lots of complaints about content in those threads. For this reason, I will no longer add any of my measured thoughts to any thread which I believe may become controversial. I'm not going to waste my time putting effort into something that may just disappear.
Other times, people are banned and all of their posts are selectively deleted from any and all threads in which they participated. That is where the history is lost.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Oct 15, 2018 - 06:14pm PT
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Kunlun_shan, Do you know if there is a way to collect all the thread copies (like you have posted here) that have been deleted and then possibly could be incorporated into an informational history thread? Thanks, Lynne.
Tarbuster, when I post something I think is significant I always make a copy and print it out and save it in Word. Jess sayin'....Cheers and so wish you could have been to Oakdale this weekend. It was Awesome!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 15, 2018 - 06:29pm PT
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I do that as well, when I think about it, Lynne.
Or I sometimes save entire threads to PDF, if I think they might get heated up and destroyed, because context is important. I don't just want my own thoughts in a vacuum.
Because I don't trust this Forum as a historical repository, I've saved many historical threads to PDF.
As far as I know, and as I have observed, the way back machine is pretty spotty regarding Supertopo. Often, only the first 20 posts of a thread are to be found. It's very much a hit and miss affair. Many threads simply cannot be found there.
Would you say that I have this right, Kunlun?
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Oct 15, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
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So glad you get it, Tarbuster! Thanks.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 15, 2018 - 06:41pm PT
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Remember Crowley? Or was it A. Crowley?
I think his name was Matthew Moore. I may even be friends with him on Facebook.
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