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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2011 - 12:38pm PT
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So bmacd,
Would it be the lesser of two evils to "electronically" create $2 trillion every year for the next 10 years?
Sub rosa, even. In other words, quietly, on the DL...
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2011 - 10:13pm PT
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Here's a stunner,
"If the markets believe we are not going to pay our debts, it could be a formula for recession or worse. So this is playing with fire."
Senator Chuck Schumer, today
What ever we do, let's not spook the markets, people.
This of course includes no discussion whatsoever on peak oil or the fact that the world's now on the descent side of it.
.....
So get this,
just watched part of the film, The International (2009) today starring Clive Owen. In it there's this line: So what do you do if after careful analysis you conclude there's no way out? Answer: You dig deeper in. Haha!!
No worries about the debt going above 14.3T, however, because that's the "debt ceiling." :)
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Congress is currently considering whether and how much to extend the debt ceiling again.
Even when the debt ceiling is reached, the U.S. Treasury has several mechanisms to temporarily acquire a limited amount of funding to buy some time and not default. This was used in 2004, when the debt ceiling was reached on October 14, 2004 and actions were taken by the administration to stay below the debt ceiling. The ceiling was raised on November 16, 2004 by $800 billion to a total of $8,184 billion.
The most recent increase in the U.S. debt ceiling to $14.294 trillion (by H.J.Res. 45) was signed into law on February 12, 2010.
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go-B
climber
Sozo
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Apr 10, 2011 - 10:50pm PT
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Looking at the debt clock is like weighing yourself everyday, way too scary don't do it!
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coastal_climber
Trad climber
British Columbia
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Apr 10, 2011 - 11:31pm PT
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Canada = win!
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 11, 2011 - 07:27pm PT
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This should be a wake up call to anyone who thinks we can keep chalking up 1.5 Trillion dollar deficits:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/PIMCO-goes-short-US-rb-3790514655.html?x=0
Right now our debt is mostly short dated treasuries (averaging about 4 years). Like buyers who wanted to purchase ever more expensive homes, our government has essentially taken out "teaser loans" to finance our debt because of the lower rates. But short term rates can rise very quickly - and when companies like Pimco start shorting our Treasuries, get ready for problems. We are already paying about 420 Billion a year in interest on our debt, but that is at RECORD low rates. If those rates doubled (highly possible) we will be paying 840 Billion a year in interest, well over half of our current deficit.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2011 - 08:14pm PT
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Hey, I've had my panties in bunches over all this fiscal bruhaha for quite awhile now. But then this morning I heard from this guy:
He said something amazing. Something quite frankly I hadn't thought through enough. He said this country's rich. He said this country is rich in assets way beyond 15 trillion, even way beyond 15O trillion. He also said something else really important: this country chooses to carry so much debt because it's cheap to do so. He said that if rates go up, the country will just pay off its debt. By selling any number of assets it's sittin on.
So after thinking about that some, I felt better. Afterall this is a rich country. We could probably sell 100 pieces of it (e.g., at $100B a piece on average) to pay off the debt and most of us wouldn't even know it. So there it is. That made me feel better. A lot better.
As long as none of these pieces is Yosemite, eh?
Or San Francisco. (Recall Hong Kong.)
How much would the Chinese pay for San Francisco or Los Angeles or Seattle I wonder? How much would U.S. give away to preserve the nation? I think someday these questions might be more than simple musings on a climbing forum.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Apr 11, 2011 - 08:24pm PT
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I think yer right.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 11, 2011 - 09:02pm PT
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"this country chooses to carry so much debt because it's cheap to do so"
hmmm... sort of like Subprime borrowers. I forget, how did that turn out for them?
Of course we have assets, but most of them are not liquid. I don't see Greece paying off all of their pension liabilities by selling the Parthenon on Ebay.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 11, 2011 - 09:10pm PT
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There is also a problem with the lower dollar hypothesis- as the dollar is descending, investment in the country dries up. Why would anyone want to invest in a depreciating asset? What we really need is to simplify our tax codes and regulation to give incentives for manufacturing in the US. Manufacturing also requires real capital - not the funny money crap the Fed is printing in the basement. Real capital means savings - of which we have none because the lunatics at the Fed artificially push down interest rates to near zero. We need to allow interest rates to come up to market levels and get people saving again, which leads to real investment and manufacturing. Get rid of the Federal Reserve.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2011 - 10:47pm PT
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CrackAddict,
Are you a Republican?
I have to be careful if you are, can't be seen agreeing too much with the Repubs or my Democratic friends will think I'm a professional operative working undercover. As a provocateur.
.....
Oh, don't shoot the messenger, what I wrote above was Jim Cramer's reason this morning on NBC Today not to be too worried.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Apr 11, 2011 - 10:51pm PT
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We could just sell the names of places, like they do on stadiums.
What would the new Yosemite be called? Googlevalley.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 12, 2011 - 01:32pm PT
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Mostly libertarian/independent - fiscally conservative, socially liberal. Not a big fan of either party. Democrats tax and spend, Republicans borrow and spend. Neither party has shown any will to bring spending in line with revenue.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 12, 2011 - 01:35pm PT
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Googlevalley - LOL. "Joshua Tree" might become "Lending Tree National Park"
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 12, 2011 - 08:13pm PT
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Ben & Jerry's Grand Canyon
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Apr 12, 2011 - 09:14pm PT
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Look honey.. there's El Pepsi-cola. Some day I want to climb that. And over there is Viagra Point... Oh.. Isn't Apple falls beautiful. I hear that at night there is a glowing apple behind the falls. I thought it was so clever when they turned the full moon into a glowing Apple. I wonder what they will think of next. Aren't we so lucky to live in America!
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 13, 2011 - 07:14pm PT
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I think both Canadians and Americans can agree to sell the name of one of the great scenic wonders of North America: Viagra Falls!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A community of hairless apes
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2011 - 02:08pm PT
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You mention Greece. Is Greece just an early harbinger?
Of course I worry about the mixed varieties of human behavior we would see in the event world societies and their economies start collapsing in a domino effect many details of which being unpredictable.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A community of hairless apes
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2011 - 09:12pm PT
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Darn republican party.
Would somebody please tell me how they got so lucky linking (a) religious Christian morals to (b) fiscal responsibility to (c) tax cuts?
Which was primarily an 80's - 90's development. So today's youngins might not even be aware of this recent historical development.
But today... the narrative is working for them. Today we have a bunch of fundamentalist Christians living in trailers hand to mouth voting Republican (to make the filthy rich even richer) because in their eyes it is the Christian conservative party committed to Christian family values.
Incredible.
How do I know? My aunt and uncle are two of them. For them, the Republican party is the Christian conservative party. Committed to Christian values, upholding them. The government and taxes issue are secondary.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jul 12, 2011 - 12:13pm PT
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We had to nuke the village in order to save it.
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