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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 27, 2011 - 09:20pm PT
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Israel has signed peace treaties with Egypt (1979), Turkey (1991), India (1992), Jordan (1994), and Mauritania (1999). (India is one of the largest Muslim nations in the world.)
It has also had or has some official diplomatic relations with Tunisia, Morocco, Qatar, and Oman.
Under Israeli law, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Yemen are enemy countries. (Strange that Iran wasn't on the list I found, although maybe it was only of Arab countries that are formal enemies of Israel.) Although it seems fairly clear that there are substantial unofficial/deniable relations with Saudi Arabia, at least.
Bush 1 knew how to handle a war, and he got stabbed in the back by his own party as a reward. And defeated in 1992 by that silly twit what's his name - no, not Clinton. The other one.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Jan 27, 2011 - 09:24pm PT
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Fatty- I have heard there exists people with your political mentality but I can't say as I have ever met one. I never realized you actually believed in all the puff you throw out. Fine line between humor and fright I am afraid.
Perhaps, via your friend Donald Nelson at the Defense Department you could provide us lads here on ST with the personal cell number of Donald Rumsfeld. I am sure there are a fair number of us on ST that would like to have a chat with the man.
Let me see, if I am correct the billions we give out yearly are in this order, with no surprise in the number one position:
Israel
Egypt
Pakistan
But there is always a little room for humor and I am reminded of what Golda Meir once said:
"Moses dragged us across the desert for 40 years to settle in the only place in the Middle East without oil."
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 27, 2011 - 09:29pm PT
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American diplomacy is an idiot's dream...
Couldn't have said it any better myself.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 27, 2011 - 09:32pm PT
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The Taliban are growing, or growing more brutal and barbaric???
It's a sh#t-stain on civility.
Possibly the only thing worse is the random violence and corruption of the tribal warlords we put back in power, ignoring the fact their rule was the only reason the Taliban were able to gain a foothold in the first place.
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ahad aham
Trad climber
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Jan 27, 2011 - 09:33pm PT
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"Let me see, if I am correct the billions we give out yearly are in this order, with no surprise in the number one position:
Israel
Egypt
Pakistan"
equally amazing is that we have to borrow the funds to make those aid payments.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jan 27, 2011 - 09:42pm PT
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A lot of bellyaching here and few solutions rendered forth, other than ignore it and walk away.
With North Africa, I may agree, but not Iran or Pakistan. The Saudis should go pound f*#king sand as we drill oil here until a better solution is found. Mexico could help us out too with all their citizens we tend to.
We need a leader with balls. And it could be a lady...
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jan 27, 2011 - 09:46pm PT
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Majid- do you get any sense what Iran thinks of all this?
As far as I can tell from watching what happens, not listening to what we are supposed to hear, is that Iran is working to establish/re-establish itself as the regional heavy weight.
If it wasn't for the oil of the Saudis, the US and Iran share a lot of mutual interests these days.
So my question when I see events unfold in the region, is where does Iran stand. Chances are, the country has a stake in the issue. Every time.
Turkey is back as a major player these days too. I should learn more about this.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jan 27, 2011 - 09:54pm PT
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This describes you to a T.
You know damn well what my solutions are. Just easier to sling sh#t me I guess.
You got anything other than the epic easy, "pull out".
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jan 27, 2011 - 09:59pm PT
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You got anything other than the epic easy, "pull out".
pullin out is what yours and AC's daddy should of done....
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jan 27, 2011 - 10:09pm PT
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First of all, tell the Saudis to f*#k off and start drilling domestically. This gets us off OPEC, largely.
Tell the Saudis if they want our business, they play ball our way. No more Wahabbi mosques in every town, no more 'under the radar' rhetoric while they suck our oil soaked dicks.
Iran. Tell them if the U.N. doesn't have TOTAL WILLING FREE ACCESS to anything they want to inspect, WE BOMB YOU WITH MULTIPLE ROUNDS OF STEALTH DROPPED BUNKER BUSTERS. We know where the sites are at.
Pakistain. IF you fuktards can't reel-in your Western provinces, WE WILL, again with bunker busters, drones, and maybe a tactical nuke or 3.
Afghanistan. Take the handcuffs off our 'police force' there. Tell Karzai, a U.S. installed puppet, to SHUT THE F*#K UP!!!, or we'll take you out as fast as you were installed. WE ARE RUNNING THE OPS THERE. STFU!!!
The Russians would back us on this plan as long as we guaranteed only a small footprint in the aftermath.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jan 27, 2011 - 10:17pm PT
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What would you suggest, Dingus? A Foreign Legion-type militia?
You pose another stupid dilemma, like your frequent, "did you serve?", bullsh#t.
I'd be arrested instantly trying to cross Int'l boundaries with a militia. If that was even a though in my mind.
Why is your solution? Are you a 'pull-outer?" or change their whole dynamic?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jan 27, 2011 - 10:30pm PT
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Clearly, Bleuy missed his calling deliberately.
He could have enlisted 23 years ago, thereby saving us all...
Well that's kinda mean spirited if you're implying that I should've died in Nam. Weird.
But when I was of fine military age I hated the military and discipline. Now I don't, and see the wisdom of their program. I used to be a typical little college liberal punk. Then I woke up.
Now? I could join. I think I may have 2 more years that they'll accept me. But it isn't going to happen. Many reasons. Mostly, they don't need me. They need 4-star generals with sacks, unlike Mullen. He's a beauracratic pussy.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jan 27, 2011 - 10:35pm PT
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My solutions?
1. No foreign engagements without a formal declaration of war from Congress. Period. No police actions, no black ops, none of that sh#t. Wanna go to war? Make your case to Congress.
2. Cut the defense budget in half by axing the big budget cold war weapons systems and fire the dinosaurs that promote Maginot Line thinking.
3. Punish any company operating in the US that sends jobs overseas; heavily.
4. No more foreign military aid without a full declaration of war and a formal alliance treaty with the recipient nation.
5. Prohibit US arms merchants from doing business with other countries without #4.
6. Require the draft for all age eligible US citizens, men and women alike, with no college exemptions.
7. If the US goes to war every household participates in some way... yours included. And I don't mean taxes or victory gardens. I mean meaningful and direct support of the war effort. WE go to war we ALL go to war.
8. Stop supporting dictators who torture their citizens.
9. Re-institute the Geneva Conventions Bush so cowardly pushed aside.
10. Make Congress a part time job with a token salary. One aid per elected congressperson, and no more.
DMT
#1- Okay, so Afghanistan is cool, right?
#2- Hey Johnson, we don't just fight wars offensively! There is a reason we haven't been attacked by Superpowers in a while. Self Defense??? I disagree with you here, a strong defense...
#3- TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!!
#4- What? What do you mean?
#5- Okay. Maybe.
#6- Not bad. I kinda like that.
#7- More data required. But overall, I agree.
#8- Duh!
#9- Maybe, but your arguement may be flawed.
#10- Yessssss!!!!!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 27, 2011 - 10:47pm PT
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Well, blue, it's pretty clear you know very little about the military, current state of our or Iranian weaponry, tactical and strategic characteristics of warfare on the ground in the ME, understanding of the consequences of attempting to project military might outside of a comprehensive, and integrated, political, economic, and military framework. Probably pointless because of that to even bother touching on how all that relates to the base population demographics of the region.
In short, you still don't have even a basic understanding of why Iraq and Afghanistan have been such epic fails from a military perspective, or why they represent such a win for Iran and China.
P.S. And I'd suggest tackling the U.S. obesity epidemic before opening a new front in a mountainous Iran; or are you still operating under the illusion that anything of real lasting value and utility can accomplished from 30k feet.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jan 27, 2011 - 10:52pm PT
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A.C., he's a pussy beaurecrat, do you think he would listen if the mail got through???
There is a poison running through our gov't. And it doesn't serve us. It serves 'them'. You know what I mean.
This is why we need 'normal' people of communal respect to serve us. People who gave up good careers to make things better. People of sacrifice for this country.
Maybe I'll run. I'd be up against Mike f*#king Honda though...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jan 27, 2011 - 10:55pm PT
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Well, blue, it's pretty clear you know very little about the military, current state of our or Iranian weaponry, tactical and strategic characteristics of warfare on the ground in the ME, understanding of the consequences of attempting to project military might outside of a comprehensive, and integrated, political, economic, and military framework.
Maybe you could enlighten me, oh wise one? (I do know of the SA-300 systems).
In short, you still don't have even a basic understanding of why Iraq and Afghanistan have been such epic fails from a military perspective, or why they represent such a win for Iran and China.
What am I missing, master????
Study up.
Please do not try to insult me by implying ignorance. I find it offensive. We weren't f*#king talking about past wars or legality therin. So why bring that up? To try to make me look stupid and propel you to some kind of exaulted alter of historical perspective??? F*#k off with that!
I don't play games, I thought you knew this.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 27, 2011 - 10:57pm PT
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Dingus lists five US declarations of war. Although one (1941) was in response to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour (de facto declaration), and to the German's first having declared war on the US.
Wasn't Korea somehow approved by action of congress? Not an outright declaration of war, as it was nominally a UN police mission. But some sort of approval?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jan 27, 2011 - 11:05pm PT
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A.C., it's his lack of action that is troubling. And he should have been in full support of the F-22 project, especially in light of new Chinese developments.
Why didn't U.S. gunboats fire back at N. Korean location recently with ship-deployed cruise missiles??
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jan 27, 2011 - 11:16pm PT
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Nice way of providing to the dialogue, Matt. You only offer rebuttal without your solution/explanation. That must be an easy road to walk, hot-shot!
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