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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 23, 2011 - 01:06pm PT
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I hesitate to jump into this love-fest, but against my instincts, here goes.
In a former life, I ran a drug rehab service for 5 years, and treated many hundreds of people with complex drug dependencies, personally.
Not all of these situations have good outcomes, but seeking and wanting help is very hopeful.
First, details matter, and the individual matters. As such, I think recommending specific drugs or therapies in these situations, without the benefit of a comprehensive evaluation is fraught with problems, so I'll not do that.
Second, a person ends up taking the prescription drugs for a reason. Very important question: What is the diagosis? I'm hearing all sorts of things thrown out: insomnia, depression, bipolar, various sleep disturbances. The right treatment for one, may make another considerably worse. A shotgun approach (let's try this) is usually a bad idea. Mixing drugs without a clear diagnosis is ALWAYS a bad idea. Particularly in these types of scenarios, the drugs involved tend to interact with one another, to produce unexpected results in an individual. Stopping the drugs does NOT get rid of the underlying problem, which will remain (which, by the way, is the problem with alcoholism, in many cases)
All of these drugs mentioned can produce dependency. All can produce withdrawal symptoms. All can make a person worse. Virtually all will actually interfere with normal sleep patterns. They will all affect memory, attention span, alertness, even ambition. For most, not enough to be a problem, or even noticable.
So, from the standpoint of a clinician, it is a dilemma: one knows there will be deleterious effects from use of a drug. However, a patient is in distress, and unable to get on with their lives. It is a balance that has to be weighed carefully. Thankfully, the modern drugs tend to be safe and effective for correctly diagnosed conditions, dosed properly, and used appropriately.
Unfortunately, those targets are sometimes (often?) missed.
So, an accurate diagnosis would be helpful (which may be difficult with a person on a mix of drugs that will alter the symptoms).
I GENERALLY agree that the less medication on board, the better.
However, a very good rule of thumb is to remove drugs SLOWLY. The human body does much better if it is allowed to ADAPT. Remember the underlying diagnosis, which may become more manifest as drugs are withdrawn. How fast depends upon the drug, and the person. The worst I've ever seen is Xanex. Patients taking hefty doses can take two years to get off, if ever.
Nasty drug.
Alcohol makes everything worse. Getting alcohol out of the equation is always a good idea. Messes up sleep, messes up the action of other drugs.
I LIKE the idea of hard physical exercise, if a person is capable. However, during withdrawal from drugs when senses may be effected, may be best not to be in dangerous situations (wouldn't do free solos). Needs to be daily, and to the point of exhaustion.
You may find attending a few AA or NA meetings to be of benefit, to gain some insight. There may some issues revealed for you that you might not at this time understand.
Often times, a person in this situation thinks "ah, I've just not yet found the right sleeper or antidepressant to take" or some such. But this is definitely not the path to take.
Best of luck in this journey.
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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Jan 23, 2011 - 01:19pm PT
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Well leb, YOU don't have the same problem ST has, so what works for YOU really isn't the issue. Unless you just want to hear yourself talk some more, in which case, blather away!
But you didn't need me to say that did you> :) You were gonna do that anyway, huh?
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altelis
Mountain climber
DC
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Jan 23, 2011 - 01:35pm PT
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Just a thought on this thread generally. I can't imagine starting a thread asking for help about issues pertaining to, among other things, stress and an inability to sleep, coming back to read through vitriolic attacks between people. That would most certainly not contribute to a feeling of support, help, or general "goodness".
It would be pretty amazing of this community if we could share ideas and positive energy with ST without demeaning ourselves or, more importantly, his struggle, by giving in to a need to peck at each other.
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Jan 23, 2011 - 01:36pm PT
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BTW, the man specifically asked for my input.
really?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jan 23, 2011 - 02:09pm PT
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Mostly tossing and turning for 4 hours- whatever sleep I got not restful really... awake feeling not rested. feel Worked.
Meds and alcohol can do that to you. So can meds alone or alcohol alone. Stress can do it too if you haven't learned to shut off your mind, which is one reason why some have recommended meditation. I recommend a type of meditation that focuses on something. Positive affirmations help me a lot. ( If you want to try the positive affirmations, I would be willing to help you write a few. Just send me an email )
For those who believe in God, focusing on the attributes of God, or spiritual Truths works, though I found that I needed to make peace with God first as I was very angry with him at one point. I don't want to take this in the direction of "is God real or not", so I will leave it at that.
Yoga can help a lot with the stress level, which can help with sleep and anxiety issues.
Getting off Trazadone was a pain to me, as I had similar type symptoms. You get a few hours sleep, which feels great, but then you wake up and feel extremely tired and drowsy, but you can't get up. I didn't find a good solution to that. I just had to suffer through it, trying to focus on the fact that I did get some sleep. If you slept, then it is possible that the feeling of being tired is more related to the affects of the drug, then how tired you are. But if you are dealing with exhaustion, and I would say that is likely, then it is probably a combination of the two.
It is just such a tricky place to be in. One really needs to work on learning how to deal with the stress, including ways to reduce the stress. I highly recommend either accupuncture or yoga to get you started in that direction. The feedback machine can be used in conjunction with these. In either case, talk to whomever is helping you do the yoga or have accupuncture and see if they can put you in a room where you can sleep afterwards. Getting caught up on sleep can go a long way to relieving many of your problems. I have taken two hour naps in the accupuncturist office that were a God send.
Good luck man. I have not dealt with a sick spouse, but have dealt with my own illness. I know how stressful it can be. I'm sending you the best vibes that I can and hope and pray and know that you can find your way through this. There are good people on this forum. If you can tolerate the sometimes bullsh#t, then you really can find help here.
Best wishes..
John Musgrove
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 23, 2011 - 02:35pm PT
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Actually ... a real man never "sleeps" but always remains conscious of his real eternal reason for his existence.
Those who "sleep" are unconscious .......
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
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Jan 23, 2011 - 02:59pm PT
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Was prescribed Seroquel and it intially worked for me, calming my anxiety helping me to sleep however, it ended up creating more harm than good. One night I woke up in extreme panic and agitation, the worst part of it, was that it took awhile to titrate off of it~ what a nightmare that was. Oh, and the other negative side effect of it was weight gain, it took me nearly a year to lose the weight I'd gained from this drug.
My advice stay away from this one.
Ken M, so far IMO, you have the most rational approach/advice.
Good luck to you whoever you are! I feel for you, sleep has been an issue for me my entire life beginning in childhood.
Karen
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