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Ouch!
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 3, 2006 - 12:53am PT
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Thanks Happie. Ramjet, you better quit faking that stuff. Did you say Junior Motormouth?
St. Judes is OK. I give them money occasionally.
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WBraun
climber
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100 rajmits can not even equal one Lois.
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Ouch!
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 3, 2006 - 01:28am PT
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Wow! Ramjet to Lois. 100 to 1. Guess that makes Ramjet worth about 2 pesos. How much is that in rupees?
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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I do *not* think that is a compliment!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Using the 100th post in the thread to second Werner on that...!
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Lois asked:
"From whence did you even get this snow flake idea? Did you not recall that in previous posts, I ridiculed Bush for this stupid idea. What is going on with you, of late? I notice that something is definitely amiss recently. Please feel free to email me if it is something you want to discuss. "
It was just a question, Lois, as the foundation came to mind with the "hints"(and yes, I am aware that you weren't hinting, I just need a word there) you were putting out.
No, I don't remember a post where you ridiculed Bush, but for all I know - that is where I first heard of the organization.
Nothing is amiss with me, that pertains to you. I've simply got too much time on my hands lately, and posts that otherwise would never have gotten out of my head have found their way crawling down my arms, into my hands, through my fingertips and, through the modern marvels of science, into the 3rd dimensional realm, where you can see them.
But, it's not amiss; just a normal part of my emotional cycle. I can be a bitch, sometimes. And I also have some vestiges of a rather strong case of PTSD. When people tell others what to do, it triggers a reaction in me. Some days, I'm more able to manage it than others.
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WBraun
climber
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Rajmit, you haven't even begun to think. Thinking, is not one of your strong points.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Rajmit He gained a lot of power until the Yanks came and blasted the crap out of his army, navy, and air force
Rajmit, you and fattrad both seem to be historically challenged. Do they teach history at MIT? If so, sign up for a modern European history course. Then, edit your post to read:
He gained a lot of power until the Red Army came and blasted the crap out of his army, navy, and air force
Otherwise Comrade Juanito will make you fattrad's cellmate at the re-education camp.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Gary, I'll bite on that one. Who stopped the Army by destroying Ploesti? Who sank the Bismarck? How many subs did the Red Army sink? Name two models of airplanes used by the Red Army.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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TradISGood:
Gary, I'll bite on that one. Who stopped the Army by destroying Ploesti?
Uber liberal George McGovern who won a DFC there, while Ronnie Raygun made movies in Hollywood. However, Ploesti was captured by the Red Army, which took it completely off-line.
Who sank the Bismarck?
The Royal Navy
How many subs did the Red Army sink?
Good question. I give.
Name two models of airplanes used by the Red Army.
YAK 9, La 7
Here's my question: In the summer of 1944, after D-Day, which Allied army was faced off against 77% of the German Army?
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Rajmit:
One company of the 101st captured over 4 battalions of the SS. That's pretty impressive.
That is very impressive. But in the big scheme of things, insignificant. At the Battle of Stalingrad:
"German Field Marshall Paulus was forced to surrender, the 6th Army and 4th Panzer Army. Estimates on the German lost are from 150,000 to 500,000 men, 91,000 were taken prisoner. The Soviet Army lost 500,000 men.
Hitler himself said, 'The god of war has gone over to the other side'."
Also, the Red Army was a miserable fighting force in the air.
"A total of 16,769 Yak-9 fighters were built in all by the time production ceased in 1947, making it not only more common than all other Yak fighter variants put together, but one of the most heavily produced aircraft of all time. The total number of all Yak fighter variants was 36,737. Many Yak pilots would become aces, and a few would score 50 kills or more in the Yak and other fighters. Among them were Dmitri Glinka, with 50 kills; Grigori Rechakov, with 56 kills; and the famous Alexandr Pokryshin, with 59 kills."
The main fall of the Luftwaffe came from the P-51's, P-47's, and P-38's pilotted by the good ol' flyboys of the United States Army Airforce. They were able to capture Berlin, however we held the German forces in Berlin with opposition from the west and south.
Germany was finished long before D-Day. At the height of the D-Day operation and its aftermath, over 3/4 of the German Army was fighting the Red Army. Stalingrad had finished off Hitler. D-Day helped speed the end of the war, but make no mistake, the outcome had already been determined.
Read some history of the Eastern Front. It is interesting. Full of tales like a Russian all-woman bomber group flying night raids in ancient biplane bombers. At Stalingrad there was a major fight over the Red October Tractor Factory. The Germans controlled half, the Reds the other. The Russians were rolling tanks off the assembly line and right into battle against the German side of the factory. And on and on.
Now if you want to talk about who kicked Tojo's ass, it was the US Navy and Army.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Lois:Where the hell have you been, man.
Hi Lois. I go climbing once in awhile, and hiking. The Coxcomb Mountains are beautiful right now. There is a nice wall back by the Aqua benchmark. Never been touched is my guess.
I know you like hiking. You should come out to Joshua Tree some year. In between hikes, you could probably get somebody from Supertaco to take you up a route. Moosedog Tower maybe.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Gary,
I think you are right. It was pretty much determined by D-Day. But I do not think that the Red Army came and kicked the Germans butt. I think the Germans went to them and got their butts kicked. - Huge strategic error?
After the destruction of Ploesti, it probably did not much matter who occupied it.
I'll plead complete ignorance of the Russian Navy, though. I do not know if they ever did anything significant.
excerpted from
The casual dismissal of Anglo-American assistance as insignificant requires further comment. Admittedly most combat aircraft provided the Soviets through Lend-Lease were not the latest models available, but it was a considerable effort in view of the facts that the United States was engaged in expansion of its own forces and those of the British and that deliveries to the Soviet Union involved difficulties in long-distance transportation. Robert Huhn Jones, in his study of Lend-Lease, tabulates 1663 Allied aircraft delivered to the Soviets by 1 November 1942—which he notes exceeded the number of modern Soviet-built aircraft used at Stalingrad.2 One of the greatest difficulties in assessing the Lend-Lease contributions to Russia is the lack of information about the Soviet employment of these aircraft. However, German sources have stated that after the spring of 1942 American and British aircraft were particularly noticeable on the Leningrad and Kuban fronts and that, on the latter, Allied aircraft sometimes outnumbered those built by the Soviets.3 It should also be remembered that as early as 1942, when the war was still undecided, Stalin was offered an Anglo-American bomber force that would operate from the Caucasus beginning in 1943, but for political reasons he rejected the proposal, desiring only the aircraft.4 The $11 billion of Lend-Lease also provided raw materials, foodstuffs, and technical assistance vital to Soviet sustenance and production"
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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But I do not think that the Red Army came and kicked the Germans butt. I think the Germans went to them and got their butts kicked. - Huge strategic error?
A whopper. It's one thing to blitzkrieg a nation the size of Poland or France, but Russia? What was he thinking? They could retreat endlessly waiting to counter-attack.
Undoubtedly, the defeat of Germany was a joint effort. But give the Devil his due. The Russians could have done it on their own, just not as quickly.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Gary, retreat endlessly? What kind of war are you picturing here? What kind of logistics? This was WWII. They needed mechanized army, planes, oil products, food, etc. In fact, they needed our planes just to stay in the game at the outset.
They weren't going to be getting either in Siberia, though admittedly it is unlikely that the Germans would have or could have logistically extended that far!
Perhaps the Germans could have defeated the Russians, if they had left the Brits, France (and our supply ships), and North Africa out of the conflict.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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They needed mechanized army
Actually, most of the German army was still horse drawn
Blitzkrieg wasn't going to work against Russia. The proof is in the actual events. They couldn't be boxed into a corner like Poland, Holland, Denmark, etc. And unklike France, they had endless manpower.
Perhaps the Germans could have defeated the Russians, if they had left the Brits, France (and our supply ships), and North Africa out of the conflict.
Maybe. They could have taken the good parts, like the Caucasus oil fields. That is if the German general staff had executed the plan. Hitler was too much of a loon.
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Ouch!
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 3, 2006 - 06:05pm PT
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Ask Johnny Horton about the Bismarck.
If Hitler had taken England before going after the Russian oilfields, the war might have turned out a wee bit different.
Ramjet, the history courses at MIT are like fractured fairytales.
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Ouch!
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 3, 2006 - 06:15pm PT
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Lois, there is a history, told by Bismarck survivors. Check it out. It is of more substance than confabulating.
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Ouch!
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 3, 2006 - 06:27pm PT
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Jeez! Ramjet! You sure better study geography a little. Without England as a base, the Allies would have had to slog all the way from North Africa to get at Europe.
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Ouch!
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 3, 2006 - 06:43pm PT
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Ramjet, I have a suggestion for you. Stop trying to rewrite history like a neocon and educate yourself. Buy some Classics Comic Books. They should be great for your MIT term papers.
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