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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jan 17, 2012 - 04:32pm PT
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Talusfeeder...
a history of the all the problems at Castle would be off the charts hard to do. not saying it shouldn't be tried, but be ready for a lot of work and a lot of confusion and misrememberances.
That Pit Bull problem is down the Yabo area. I think it's in one of the old guides, likely Bruce's.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jan 17, 2012 - 04:38pm PT
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Not sure about "Pit Bull". Looks like a real good problem though.
I know there are a bunch of new problems in the creek bottom to the north of the X-mas Tree Farm property, but have no idea about the FAs or protagonists. There's also some new stuff if you walk north from Partridge House and head toward the road to the CRSP campground. Haven't a clue about who, what, when, where or why? There's also a bunch of new problems to the south of Indian at an area called the "Tree in the Wall" with many more there too. Seen some videos of routes down there on YouTube.
A wonderful project you propose, however. But I'm sure it would never satisfy everyone simply because no one person knows about everything that's been done up there. I did a new slab boulder along the trail to the Nature Nazis and I think Michael Donovan did a 5.12 micro problem on the extreme left edge of the rock. But I'm sure of that because I did it myself!
I think members of the Pajama Gang know a lot more about the new stuff. There were problems around Mr Magoo that were already old when Bates, Kauk and Yabo were doing their thing up there in the early to mid 70s. I do know that Mike Campana was the first to do the Beak mantle and also the Swim problem because he told me so and I believe him. Who did the FA of the Spoon? Buried in the depths of time!
I think a better idea today would be a video catalog of boulder problems linked to a TOC or a map of the Park and sold on a DVD or distributed online. Could be updated and corrected online so new info could always be added as fresh details became available. The printed word is just so hard to change once it's in book form. I did know every problem at the Nature Nazis at one time simply because Dave Caunt and myself did everything there in one stretch of time. However, now there are a bunch of new ones there and the number continues to grow. I personally like the idea of a video of each problem linked with an interactive map. To really document CRSP and environs accurately would require a project as big as the Fontainbleau guidebook. Lots of luck!
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jan 17, 2012 - 04:50pm PT
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I've never had a climb remain unrepeated due to reach,
Uh, G-String ring a bell?
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jan 17, 2012 - 04:56pm PT
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You did Asian Invasion? I believe that. Those problems used to sit down there and nobody ever visited them. There's now a new arete just to the left of Asian Invasion, which has been down rated to V6. The new arete is said to be V7 though. Bates must have told me there was new stuff to do down there and I took you down to see what could be done.
Here's Michael Donovan on the new V7 mantle problem to the left of "Asian Invasion":
Correct me if I'm wrong, Coz, but I think J. Collins did the Collins Problem on the PLR when it had comparatively big holds on the power pull start. Then, they broke off & altered the route and made it significantly harder. You must have done the first "hard" ascent of the Collins when the edges were tiny, tiny crimpers, which have stayed that way - almost - ever since. But a sit start to the Collins? Wow!
Looks like someone may have done a sit start to the Caunt Power Pull on the back of the big Nature Nazi boulder too. If so, again wow! Know that Sharma was messing around with that variation, so it may have gone years ago, but someone told me he couldn't send it. Never know unless you were there!
Seems like V9s used to be almost the top of the scale up at Castle in the 80s and 90s and now have become more or less commonplace when everyone is shooting for bona fide double digit boulder problems. Seems as though whenever a classic gets to be a common send, it gets down rated one grade too. Yesterday's V7s are now rated V6. Same old, same old. The rare and the exceptional have now become commonplace as climbers get better and standards go up.
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Talusfeeder
Social climber
Here
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Jan 17, 2012 - 05:41pm PT
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I agree that a concrete history would be quite an undertaking.
I am going to compile a list of all known boulder problems and variations with their common name, not necessarily their given name, as many were not even named and graded by the FA. Over time I will include info on each area and hopefully a little bit of history too. One area that I am VERY interested in learning the history of is the Muffins. Why are there bolts on those boulder problems? It is odd to me that these beautiful, clean faces over good landings were bolted while the Klinghoffer highballs remain boltless.
This will create a forum for climbers to input any information they have on the history of an area and also to look back and see if their 'FA' is really.
The sit to Collins is quite hard...V12 maybe? It is actually some decent pulling once you are off the ground. The sit start to Caunt Power Pull is pretty cool too. V8ish I think. I know there are at least two sit starts to 'Groundation' now as well as the obvious start to 'Static Reach.' I am looking in your guide right now Bruce and it looks like you have a "V0 Mantle" listed as the only problem on the boulder where 'Pitt Bull' is. The 5.11 lieback on the boulder next store has two sit starts on it that make a couple of really legitimate, quality lines.
I have climbed at the Tree in the Wall area and a couple of the outlying areas around Goat rock. I find it really hard to believe that that stuff is really 'new' though.
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dfinnecy
Social climber
'stralia
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Jan 17, 2012 - 06:31pm PT
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Documenting boulder problems highlights the absurdity of this sport we all know and love
Reminds me of this bit from Garden State
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jan 17, 2012 - 07:04pm PT
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I can't tell the history of the Klinghoffers because I wasn't there in the late 80s to watch the action. But if you go up there you'll see there are ancient bolts on top of the tallest Klinghoffer; Star bolts, so they probably date from the early 60s. There was an old bolt ladder up the tallest of the Klinghoffers too. But it was chopped ages ago too.
I think Caunt drilled the bolts up the tallest of the Muffins ground up with a now prohibited power drill; mostly just to get on top and install the anchors for the 5.12/13 crack. The little Muffins were done just because they were there. Totally unrelated to the crew over at the Klinghoffers. I TRed the crack, but the other day I saw a guy taking big falls until he got it as a boulder problem.
Incidentally, there's some really, really high-standard boulder problems up a pocketed face just behind the anchors for Clamydia that haven't gone yet. I mean really hard, but if someone's got the crimp strength the holds are there.
Those routes near Goat were all done in the late 80s by the same group that did the Klinghoffers: Dave Caunt, Rich Vetter, Elliott Robinson, Scott Cosgrove, Rick Harlan, and Kim Dao to name a few. Lots of them out there with very little traffic today. Back then they were the latest rage and everyone went there after work and after school. Now, little known, less traveled today.
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Talusfeeder
Social climber
Here
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Jan 17, 2012 - 07:51pm PT
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I saw a guy taking big falls until he got it as a boulder problem.
I did that crack with a pad too and thought it was highly appropriate. A couple friends and I have done all of the Muffin routes with a pad and it seems like it is just so much more natural for those routes.
I have done that TR on the backside of Clamydia boulder and messed around on some of the lines on either side. Really cool, but a little crusty in parts.
I didn't know about the bolt ladder at the Klinghoffers. I have seen the bolts on top..I have no issues with those, i'm just glad that there aren't bolts on the face's anymore. I think those highballs are fantastic...I am always encouraging people to go and check the area out.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jan 18, 2012 - 12:45am PT
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I wasn't talking about the Coz problem with the separate anchors on the back side of Clamydia. There are a bunch of potential new boulder problems to do further east on a rising wall with pockets. It's a little above the first switch back on the descent trail back down to the creek from the Clamydia anchors. Never seen chalk there. Tiny bit of cleaning needed up high. Like a breaking wave of pebbles about 15ft high. Fingers of steel no doubt.
Actually, Talus, if you go snooping around Castle in the hidden grottoes and nooks you'll discover evidence of plenty of old Star-drive bolts up blank faces. I think in the late 50s and early 60s there were people doing A1 ladders up every available blank face in the Park and elsewhere along the Skyline too. Seems as though there was a 'revolution' at some point in time afterwards and some people made an effort to remove all the old ladders (but not necessarily the anchor bolts). But you can still see traces of them on Platypus, Shady Rock, Klinghoffers, Indian Rock, Cal Cliff, Tower of Pain etc. etc. There have to be more lurking around out there in remote locations. Today all you see are a few scars where they used to be and perhaps a bent over hanger or two with Star heads sticking out. Unrecorded rock history, but at some point in the dim past there was a revolt again A1 bolt ladders at Castle and a bunch of 'chopping parties'.
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Talusfeeder
Social climber
Here
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Feb 20, 2012 - 11:36pm PT
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Bruce,
CAUTION- SPRAY ALERT
I had a few days up at Castle in the past couple weeks and actually roped up and did some of the obscure topropes scattered about. I did the backside of the Clamydia anchors again...It was pretty bad-holds breaking all over the place.
I was also able to finish the .13 on Billy Goat. I stayed left of the line of 1/4" bolts up to the finishing mini-prow. It is actually a pretty cool little line! I did a sort of variation/eliminate that goes straight up the bolt line from the big indentation near the start and tends right-you have to avoid the crack out right though-felt like a hard .13b...is there an existing route here?
Also checked out some stuff on the left corner of the boulder that 'Sunset Arete' is on at Last Temptation. I had a sketchy line setup slung on those trees and the anchor for sunset. This route would be quite hard and is very sustained right off the ground. I don't think it is really topropable with the given anchors but there is a possibility to pad the landing. Could be a cool V7/8. Also hopped on Sunset Arete for the first time. A bit of a one move wonder but I was able to get pumped doing some laps up and down it. It's one of the few routes at Castle that is actually down-climbable.
I was also able to finally finish up the right finish on the 'Roadkill' boulder. Climb the crack from a sit, make your way over to the large hueco on the overhanging face and use some trickery (and extra sticky rubber) to get over the lip. This thing actually climbs pretty well but is VERY reachy. I am 5'10- and was totally tipped out on it.
My question for you is-are there any other hard routes around here? I know there is 'Going Down Fast' in Aquarian Valley, but I am never too psyched to walk out to that area. I did one tall boulder problem on the way out to that area which was quite hard but also on kind of bad holds. What is 'Going Down Fast' like?
Do you know of any other hard roped routes or roped 'Projects.' I have done everything in your guidebook that was listed as a .13 project-some are a little soft. They just might fill in that .12c/d void at Castle...I think the muffin monster is .12c and the route on BIlly Goat felt .12d...
Hopefully you have some hidden gems out there!
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Feb 21, 2012 - 12:37am PT
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Think the uncompleted route out the roof to the right of "Full of Hatred" (5.11d) might fill the bill for hard & uncompleted routes at Castle. On the N. side of the Waterfall, across the creek. There's a bolt installed for a back-rope to hold you in place if you fall out at the lip. Anchors above too. It's too tall to fall. The belayer has to manage the belay rope and the back rope at the same time, unless you've got a party of three. Bet it's 5.13 for sure.
The Partridge House is right next to the other entrance at CRSP leading to Goat Rock. I've never seen that stuff myself, but have heard it's there. Have to go to Partridge House (Ranger's Residence) and walk boldly N. toward the dirt road to the CR Campground. Lots and lots of territory out there sandwiched between the Skyline and the forbidden Valley of Stone/so-called Lion Caves. Think Michael Donovan knows where that creek bottom is with the new routes up an arete. Haven't been there either but saw some pics so it must be true. Mark Swank has found some new stuff too. Don't know where.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Feb 21, 2012 - 03:40am PT
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you need to get out to the green monster,
there is even a vine climb or two,
bring a loin cloth for that one,
leave early and travel fast, turn around once in a while, take a radio,
die young,
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dfinnecy
Social climber
'stralia
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Feb 21, 2012 - 06:24am PT
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[Click to View YouTube Video]
Anyone know what the name of this problem is?
I used to do it back in the mid 90s and called it Elephant Butt, cause the top out was like gettin up on top of an elephant's butt. Or like I imagined it might be to climb up to a mantle on an elephant's butt. I've never been on top of an elephant so I can't say.
A few weeks back I got in a short session up there, damn CRSP bouldering is fantastic. Something about that friction,...
Edit: Seriously!? v7?
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Talusfeeder
Social climber
Here
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Feb 21, 2012 - 10:28am PT
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I think that is the classic "5.11 Route." It miiiiiight be V7 from the sit around right. There is a really cool toe hook when you do the sit. This route, the sit start to the right in front of the tree and "Pittbull" on the adjacent boulder all feel about the same grade. Hard to tell on Pittbull-I was flailing on it but sent it fitst time I tried the knee scum...
Anyway-It is a really cool problem and makes for a fun eliminate too.
There is also the big main Yabo rock just uphill from these- If you are looking at the face there is a mantle/slab prob around the right side. Aside from the awful landing it is a great, tall V2 for the area!
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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As far as Castle Rock history is concerned, I learned yesterday from Elliott Robinson that it was in fact Kurt Smith who did the FA of the Klinghoffer Traverse boulder problem to the Man Overboard finish way back in the day during the early 80s. Again, that's word of mouth, but it stands to reason that Dave Caunt would have taken Kurt there to finish the traverse with a high ending when no one else was willing to take the risk. I'd heard from Dave that Kim Dao was the one who added the hard start to the beginning of the Klinghoffer traverse. But it now sounds like Kurt Smith was the first to put the whole traverse with the nasty high-ball ending together in one push.
But who really knows? We're talking about memories that are now over 30 years old!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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The Muffins don't see much traffic these days from what I've seen. That stuff looks pretty gnarly aka hard highballs.
For me anyways...
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