Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 04:42pm PT
|
Nice troll, Raj. Building a list of the folks who prefer fantasy? Just waiting now for the religion version...
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 04:50pm PT
|
No one here is preferring fantasy nor has any poster here said there is an actual conspiracy, just trying to understand something of these buildings collapsing as they did.
Try not to project your fertile mind always onto everything.
Thus the original question was: What Actually Happened?
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 04:52pm PT
|
TGT is right.
I think it was Hunter Thompson who said: "It's always easier to sell someone some sh-it than it is to give them the truth".
|
|
Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 04:54pm PT
|
That still doesn't mean that our "Rulers" are necessarily intelligent and kind. No matter how nice we think we are, it may be that when historians look back on our era they will consider it just as brutal and nasty as Rome under the Caesars. To poorly paraphrase W. B. Yeats, in the post-Renaissance world Knowledge and Power don't come together in the same package.
The whole film does seem to be a bit paranoid, though, taking various bits of evidence to suggest a pre-conceived conclusion. Remember all those Kennedy conspiracy books? Today each one seems to reflect the politics of the era in which it was written. I know that if you interview a dozen different participants in a tramautic event, like combat, for instance, you'll find that time and space and the exact sequence of events are totally skewed and distorted. Is there ever a real objective truth? Probably not, at least not in human events.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 04:55pm PT
|
Werner,
Everything in the videos is consistent with the collapse of a structure of WTC 7's peculiar structural loading. It was designed with a very strange core design to go around the con ed trasformers. The floor spans off that odd core were quite long and the tank was over the core end of them. The building actually started to throw out of the footprint and then pulls back in if you watch the street video closely. The roof collapsing asymmetrically in time and plan suggests that the tank collapse drug one protion of the center down slightly ahead of other parts - i.e. it wasn't a clean core out, bottom up shot - and exterior curtain walls dropped straight down vs. inward on all sides as would be more common on a straight shooting. Much of what you say would be true if this were actually a standard steel, curtain-walled office building without strange internal structures and added loads
 this one was anything but that.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 04:59pm PT
|
I just want to put this in the face of those who say no conspiracy is possible. Answer my damn question at the End
THE US GOVERNMENT HAS ACTUALLY PLANNED TERRORIST ATTACKS AGAINST THE US. It wasn't during a GOP administration either. Sh#t happens. check out
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html
"Code named Operation Northwoods, the plan, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war."
Let say that Kennedy didn't 86 the plan which was signed off on by the whole Joint Chiefs, and a round of violent terrorist attacks were pulled off by the Kennedy Government on Americans.
This very nearly happened . Ask yourself this question
"Would I have questioned the evidence that it was Kennedy and not Castro killing Americans or just assumed that such a thing was unthinkable?"
We believe what we want to believe. If something is too far out of our worldview and experience, our mind glances right over it.
If you can at least answer my question
"Would I have questioned the evidence that it was Kennedy and not Castro killing Americans or just assumed that such a thing was unthinkable?"
You will at least prove your mind can go there
peace
karl
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 05:04pm PT
|
Rajmit
You just make statements about pearl harbor with no links or back up. Why should I believe you? I at least have a credential to teach world history and provided a link.
Peace
karl
Edit: Not enough information but don't believe the whole official story
|
|
G_Gnome
Trad climber
Ca
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 05:04pm PT
|
With all major media outlets now owned by big business (was it ever any other way?) why would you expect any sort of real investigation into these sorts of charges. They are the ones behind the whole thing in the first place.
And I think it takes much less belief in the fact that top levels of government knew that a major attack was imminent and declined to prevent it, planning on using it as the excuse to crusade against the middle east and gain precious oil reserves.
Ok now, I am done with politics for the rest of the year!
|
|
TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 05:07pm PT
|
Karl, oddly enough, no skyscraper of any type ever got loaded up with that much jet fuel or diesel oil and had it ignited.
So what is the conclusion? Since it never happened before, it did not happen, could not happen.
No steel skyscraper was ever intentionally destroyed with people in it before. I wonder where my friend, Frank, really is.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 05:08pm PT
|
Yea-Conspiracy
Conspiracy of practitioners of Radical Islam.
Conspiracy of Muslims to destroy things Muslims could never create (sky-scrapers) using weapons (jet aircraft) that Muslims could never create.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 05:31pm PT
|
Thanks healyje for your honest and insightful analysis, more than I can say for some of these other folks who just try to ignite some sort of political or religious overtones with the intent to flame into the discussion.
This whole of 9/11 event is a very interesting phenomenon that touches many different arenas.
|
|
426
Sport climber
That one arete, HP40, AL
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 05:34pm PT
|
Gee and I thought the big story would be the lurid tale of a gay, self proclaimed, "Conservate Christian" pro-military prostitute with unfettered access to the White House.
Clearly FOX would have run coverage on this story 24-7, even over Natalee Holloway, right?
Jeff Gannon Admits Past 'Mistakes,' Berates Critics
By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, February 19, 2005; Page C01
Jeff Gannon, the former White House reporter whose naked pictures have appeared on a number of gay escort sites, says that he has "regrets" about his past but that White House officials knew nothing about his salacious activities.
"I've made mistakes in my past," he said yesterday. "Does my past mean I can't have a future? Does it disqualify me from being a journalist?"
In the interview, Gannon did not dispute evidence that he has advertised himself as a $200-an-hour gay escort but would not specifically address such questions.
The records show that Mr. “Gannon” was allowed access to the White House 38 times when no public press events occurred. He also spent hours in the White House both before and after press events took place. With whom did he meet on those occasions and what was the subject matter of those meetings?
On 13 occasions there is a record where he checked in with security, but is never registered as leaving the White House complex. How do you explain this?
http://rawstory.rawprint.com/0405/guckert_access_a1.php
And all this in a post 9/11 world where security supposedly supercedes liberty?
Raj-dig a little deeper, that rabbit hole involves oil, tin and jute embargoes as well as Japanese-American relations in the Phillipines in the 20's and 30's. You're just grazing the top there...
|
|
Ouch!
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 05:39pm PT
|
"By the way, since I authored this thread, please post one of the following:"
Ramjet, you should know by now that you cannot dictate to this crowd. You may have authored the first post but the thread belongs to the toughest hijacker.
This is not wimpy MIT. This is the wild west.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 05:48pm PT
|
Since this thread has been hi-jacked, and 426 posted up a picture of a gay guy, please post one of the following:
-yea boxers
-nea tighty whiteys
-no drawers
-too much information
|
|
WoodyS
Trad climber
Riverside
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 05:55pm PT
|
Great thread. As soon as I get back from having my saucer overhauled on Alph Centauri Two, I'll spend some time thinking about all this.
|
|
Ouch!
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 05:56pm PT
|
"Ouch, I am just trying to get a general consensus on the topic."
No way. You are trying to shoot down all the cool conspiracy theories. If we can't have our conspiracies, what is the point in our paranoia? Would you take that from us also? Man! That's cold.
|
|
TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 06:05pm PT
|
Raj, It gives no support for your theory that Pearl Harbor was known to be the target of the Imperial Navy.
You should learn not to fall into this type of logical fallacy. The fact that something does not support a conclusion, is not the same as something that disproves a conclusion.
All the documents in the world that we know of may not support the theory, but that does not make the theory wrong. And it only takes one valid document to prove it.
Parallel. All the "not finding" of WMD does not prove that it does/did not exist. Only the finding of WMD can prove that it existed. Nothing [practically speaking] can really prove that it does/did not exist.
Lack of evidence may be persuasive in this type of thesis, but it can never be conclusive.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 06:14pm PT
|
So ShortTimer's post is very interesting also.
|
|
426
Sport climber
That one arete, HP40, AL
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2005 - 06:31pm PT
|
I posted a pic of a pro-military, conservative, Christian gay prostitute press corps member who had unfettered access to the white house...not to get all technical, but I wouldn't just post any old 'gay guy' mug up there...
Yeah, that crazy multi-headed liberal media...Talon leans that way, no?
If the media was really that aggressive, don't cha think the "New" Abu Ghraib images (you know, the ones where boys are raped, "rape and murder" according to Graham, R-SC) would have been fought for by someone other than a Russ Kick type?
And the NYT sits on the NSA wiretap story for over a year(?)
What the bleep do we know...
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!