What makes a route a 'classic'....?

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Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Dec 22, 2010 - 11:20am PT

Doug has it.

I was gonna use the Stewart (no relation to Dean) Potter quote, "I know it when I see it."

But its more like when you climb it.

One thing that hasn't been pointed out.
If a route is so sustained that it is difficult to tell where the crux is then it likely qualifies on most people's lists as a classic.

Gunkie

Trad climber

East Coast US

Dec 22, 2010 - 04:09pm PT

gunkie why are you not in jersey getting barreled!? :)

Because I'm spending all of my time thrashing up all of the mega classics at High Rocks in Ralph Stover State Park.

This? [NJ, DEC 13 2010]

Or this?

All those lichen are super solid. You can sling them for pro. Just like climbing with knotted cord at that sandstone place in Europe.

Bad Acronym

climber

Little Death Hollow

Dec 22, 2010 - 06:22pm PT

Anything >5.5 that I can onsight or redpoint on lead is a "classic." Everything else is a "frustration".

mouse from merced

Trad climber

merced, california

May 14, 2012 - 05:50am PT

A classic needs a certain amount of history, lore, good stories, the things we all can relate to or we none of us can.

Joe Brown down-climbing Cenotaph.
I certainly relate to that. Yeah, right.

Or Lost Arrow Chimney and the ban on climbing it. The Roper incident, of which I have heard three, maybe four similar-but-varying versions.

The Central Pillar of Frenzy is one of the most easily recognizable lines in the entire world. The queuing at the base of CPF is due in large part to the "classic" approach. I call it so because the brevity of the approach is as short as any for such a high-quality climb.

The Nose is classic simply because of its big nose. The Funny Girl of Grade VIs. Too powerful to ignore, like Barbra.

The Prow. One of the real gems. Few well-known stories, though. Great position, wonderful vistas. Roper's initial verbal description helped it gain recognition. "This intimidating route lies," says he. Check it out, he really wrote that. Then he wrote, "This airy climb could become very popular." He as much as labeled it classic from the beginning.

Anything which captures and holds our imagination as a kid, and takes up so much of our dreamspace with thoughts of it is special, and we each have these things in our heads forever. The first time I saw Higher Cathedral Spire, I thought I may have a chance with that someday. I was only 13, but figured way down inside me it might be doable. As I got to climbing I made it one of my first major ticks. In fact my first 5.8 climb. This type of climb, the one which helps to fill the soul with a sense of long-awaited fulfillment are the real classics.
One way to see it, anyway.

Note to Padraig Stewart: I noticed a post of yours which mentioned your desire to visit Wales and tick the Cenotaph Corner and then to the coast to tick Dream of White Horses, a pair of classics, definitely. Weel, lad?

And there was a "classic" read in a magazine of yore, concerning the lore of Vampire and the Stonemasters, Largo and RA, et al. It may even have been penned by the Large Man himself. Anybody willing to share it, bring it in here. Please. If it isn't too big a deal.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

May 14, 2012 - 07:08am PT

You guys are kind of overthinking it. A classic is a route that people aspire to climb. If you travel to Corth Conway NH to get on Recombeast, the Book, Lost Souls, Inferno, Atlantis, The last unicorn and the Prow it is with good reason. They are classics. As much as many here like to argue otherwise most of the true classics are populer for the good reason that they are classic..

mouse from merced

Trad climber

merced, california

May 14, 2012 - 08:33am PT

"A classic is a route that people aspire to climb."

But I thought I just said that. A climb like HCS, which I "aspired" to climb for many year, gave me the sense of fulfillment. I'm not looking to go to NH to find that. Good on ya if you can. I got my classics here, too. Nuff said, I'm for bed.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

May 14, 2012 - 08:40am PT

Just used NH as an example. Pick your destination and you will find that most of the classics are busy. Sometimes a climb is busy simply because it is easy and well protected. that does not make it a classic unless it is also an appealing line. Back to N Conway for example. Funhous is a shitheap in the woods but it is crowded simply because it is easy with good gear.

Ben Emery

Trad climber

Australia via Bay Area via Australia...

May 14, 2012 - 09:02am PT

What makes a route a classic? Not sure it can or should be defined. It's kind of like Justice Potter Stewart's comment regarding pornography: You'll know it when you see it.

But anything with memorable climbing up a cool feature is already half way there. I think Warren Harding probably had a good eye for the "feature" part of the equation, even if that sometimes came at the expense of the clean line.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

May 14, 2012 - 09:34am PT

I don't think that a route's history has anything to do with whether it is classic....a route's architecture is the determining factor.
Climbers add to an existing rock architecture; ratings, history, fixed gear, etc.- but a classic line was there long before human history began and will be there long after we are gone.

mouse from merced

Trad climber

merced, california

May 14, 2012 - 10:58am PT

Well put, JD. It looks like you have a good purist point and I can let the aspirations, the fulfillments go, so much human, impure dross.
That leaves architectural principles of line. Position has a logical place by virtue of its close association with nature's architecture. Position is more a geophysical or topographic term, though.

It is odd that two splendid examples of both line and position sit side by side, the Nose (Harding) and the EBMCR (Harding). With the Merced as the common denominator. One has the massive solidity of a giant at rest and alone, the other is surrounded by a multitude of singularities, including a lively waterfall.

And next to the lively waterfall is the Leaning Tower, the West Face route a fine looking line--from one direction, the east--but contrived and "a sin to look upon," from any other spot. There were few crack systems of sufficient length for purists--aside from the fact it looked scary as hell! The route is a reflection of the same finder of the last two examples. Yet many call the Tower a "classic."

"Esplain that, Lucy."--classic line, classic show

You can't justify or explain Harding or his motives without turds turning up, I'm warning you.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

May 14, 2012 - 11:26am PT

The visual elegance of a rocks architecture is important as is (in regards to climbing) the natural line to be followed. The European notion of a directissima was a farce.