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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Lol. Too funny. ;-)
Its interesting that you think its funny because you fall victim to that same kind of logic.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Port,
Are we feeling grumpy?
Dude its Friday.
:-))
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Ignoring the simple geometry provided by pics from multiple angles is also very sheep like Karl.
The first thing that stands out to me is that this thing was filmed very close to a major population center and we know exactly what time it happened and where it was filmed from.
That being that case, and after it was reported by nationwide news, how come the government basically claimed "We don't know what it was but there is no evidence that it was a threat?" I mean WTF, in terms of air traffic control and homeland security both. After 9-11 you can have jets flying around as UFOs in SoCal and the government is clueless? I'd have more respect for them if they were simply lying about it! Which is worse?
It should have been child's play to confidently and specifically identify the flight and they had lots of public pressure motivation to put resources on that. Didn't happen
Peace
Karl
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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mono, you have to get creative with the search words. i got more under "military weather control", and, frankly, this is not a matter of burning interest to me. if the government is ever made to come clean about its many dark ops, we'll get to the bottom of the chemtrails question. as i suggested previously, it could even be related to a noble cause, like the (equally questionable) ozone hole.
here's one which is, to say the least, curious:
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0450(1997)036%3C0302%3AICSWLO%3E2.0.CO%3B2
i've made many crossings of the mojave to visit relatives in western arizona. one day, about five years ago, i saw a couple things that were hard to believe. i'm not going to go into it here, but i do know there's lots going on and it's hidden from the public. "hidden" isn't even the right word, because the public has become so jaded and incurious that such things can go on in plain sight of interstate traffic and newspapers won't even go out and ask questions about it. it's surprising to me that the los angeles television station even covered this, and i think that if it were easily explained by contrails it would never even have gone on the air.
getting back to this thread, i'm hearing too many experts say it was a missile. one of them is a janes' editor in england, not cited here yet. my experience is not with aeronautics but with human behavior, especially the behavior of officials and spokespeople, and i've come to suspect that we have a little circus going on.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Yes, Karl, you can fault the government for not providing the info you wanted quickly and in the exact form you wanted. If they did, then the conspiracy droids would have said, isn't that interesting. They must have been all ready for this event. You seem to think that all parts of the government act together seemlessly and can instantly analyze all civilian webcams.
Civilian and military tracking radar showed nothing unidentified or otherwise a threat and they can't see contrails. Satisfying your needs is not a high priority for them.
I think it's great that the info comes from multiple sources and we have to piece it together. Much more trustworthy.
And Tony, you made a specific claim about "chemtrails". You claimed dozens of entries would scare us. Not true, unless you believe all those prisonplanet type sources. Raymond was not cherry picking.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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God is a concept,
By which we can measure,
Our pain,
I'll say it again,
God is a concept,
By which we can measure,
Our pain,
I don't believe in magic,
I don't believe in I-ching,
I don't believe in bible,
I don't believe in tarot,
I don't believe in Hitler,
I don't believe in Jesus,
I don't believe in Kennedy,
I don't believe in Buddha,
I don't believe in mantra,
I don't believe in Gita,
I don't believe in yoga,
I don't believe in kings,
I don't believe in Elvis,
I don't believe in Zimmerman,
I don't believe in Beatles,
I just believe in me,
Yoko and me,
And that's reality.
The dream is over,
What can I say?
The dream is over,
Yesterday,
I was dreamweaver,
But now I'm reborn,
I was the walrus,
But now I'm John,
And so dear friends,
You just have to carry on,
The dream is over.
-John Lennon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jknynk5vny8
belief in a conspiracy is a way of asserting human control over the random stuff that happens to humans... better to believe in intention than to succumb to the idea that sometimes, sh#t happens, and we have no control over it at all.
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raymond phule
climber
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the problem with google scholar is that you usually have to pay to read beyond abstracts and first pages.
And the problem with books are that you need to by them or go to a good library. You might also need to have some background knowledge to be able to understand them.
Lets just continue to be completely ignorant of the knowledge that exist while at the same time continue to say that no knowledge seems to exist.
The truth might be that it is hard to gain detailed scientific knowledge about contrails without reading scientific books and scientific articles.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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IMHO; this was a missile launch. No comment on "who, or from what" it was launched. The trail had all the characteristics of a asphaltic base/chlorate oxidizer, and containing powdered aluminum, burn.
All of the droids out there, simply go to the NASA.gov website and look at the launch video of the Ares I-X conducted late last year, and then tell me it WASN'T a solid phase rocket motor burn.
The problem with "trusting the Government," is you cannot separate truth from lies of convenience very easily.
Also, as a pilot myself, I've never seen a contrail that looked like the photo.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Civilian and military tracking radar showed nothing unidentified or otherwise a threat and they can't see contrails. Satisfying your needs is not a high priority for them.
so, monolith, you've become a spokesman for the government? you must have the highest of security clearances to be sure of this information, and i know you're a truth-teller, at least with that last remark. public accountability is the lowest of priorities, and we reaped the benefits of that abundantly on 9/11, when four hijacked-airplane intercepts all failed, including the one plodding down to the pentagon with 40 minutes of lead time. the rumor mill has it that no one was even reprimanded for getting caught with their pants down like that. some were promoted! hey, it's the touchy-feely military, what can i say? at least it has its priorities right.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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I was responding to Karl about the government response. I don't need to be a spokesmen, they've already said this. Try to stay in context and focus, Tony.
My sources are civilian. 2 views from Long Beach, 1 view from LAX.
If it was a missile, it was extremely slow and aimed at the US. Fit that into your conspiracy scenarios.
BTW, I thought you cdroids claim we shot down flight 93? Get your story straight there Tony, you are flopping around again.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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it'll be a cold day in hell when information coming from such sources is not controlled and coordinated by the government. these controls were clamped down extra hard after 9/11, when initials reports from ATC indicated the military was well-apprised of the behavior of all four flights. these stories have since been revised many times over. there's a lot to be kept under the lid, mono, especially in the air radar realm, especially around big cities.
these are just facts. draw what conclusions you will. but who can believe a government connected to such a modus operandi?
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Got it Tony, all info is government controlled.
Stop your whining and start your revolution.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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not all information, mono, only the important stuff. it's okay to leak 10-year-old state department memos. you won't be getting today's memos, however. and 48-year-old memos about planned attacks on our citizens by our government (operation northwoods--blame the mofo on cuba) are hunky-dory. it's covered under freedom of worthless information.
revolution? you think people care?
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Our government IS stupid, but I really don't think they are so stupid as to set up a "secret" missile launch zone within view of 15 million people. LOL.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Make Assauge a frigging KNIGHT. HE is fighting for FREEDOM far more than the US Congress is. Assuage has done more for freedom in the US than the US Army has in Iraq.
Agreed! Nobel Peace prize for the man!
After all, how else would the government apologists on this thread have any evidence that the government isn't two faced if somebody didn't sometimes publish the government's own evidence that it lies!!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 28, 2014 - 04:11pm PT
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Those look more like 'lines' on a mirror. Jess sayin'...
Although in 'bama maybe that's the powdered sugar from some donuts.
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 28, 2014 - 05:53pm PT
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^^^ debunked
wake vortices, aerodynamic contrails in high humidity
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