Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
hagerty
Social climber
A Sandy Area South of a Salty Lake
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2010 - 02:42pm PT
|
In only one post is there any mention of phenylketonuria. This is a metabolic genetic disorder that results in an enzyme deficiency. That enzyme is necessary to metabolize the essential amino acid phenylalanine. If left untreated or ignored, it can cause problems with brain development, leading to progressive mental retardation, brain damage, and seizures. In the past, PKU was treated with a low-phenylalanine diet. Recent research has shown that diet alone may not be enough to prevent the negative effects of phenylalanine levels.
Foods high in phenylalanine include mammal breast milk, meat, chicken, fish, eggs, nuts, cheese, legumes, cow milk and other dairy products as well as some starchy foods such as potatoes, bread, pasta, and corn.
Aspartame is composed of two amino acids: aspartic acid and phenylalanine. *That* is why some people have problems when they ingest aspartame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylketonuria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylalanine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy
Also the entire aspartame "controversy" is a long standing internet hoax and urban legend. Text from a number of sites used as negative examples in courses on web trustworthiness have been reproduced in this thread.
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 16, 2010 - 03:10pm PT
|
What I have posted is based entirely on my own personal experience and research. I have in the past synthesized virtually every one of the compounds to which I have referred: Tetragastrin, Pentagastrin, Human Gastrin I Norleucine analogue. I have read all of the pertinent research papers by the Morely group in England, the group responsible for all the synthetic pathways and bioassay data.
This is not a conspiracy thread--just a pi$$ed off victim thread.
|
|
Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2010 - 05:24pm PT
|
And if you have Type II diabetes, maybe you should climb more.
Type I, my apologies for being a dick.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2010 - 03:59am PT
|
I don't like having post 60 for something important
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2010 - 04:03am PT
|
This Agave fad is mostly a hippie urban myth. I should know. I have lots of hippie with me.
No free lunch when it comes to things that taste fatty or sweet. Check out all the bad stuff about agave.
http://goneraw.com/forum/agave-nectar-high-frutose-health-food-fraud
or even better, from here
http://www.sacredchocolate.com/agave-blues-david-wolfe
The Sweetener Wars are heating up. Dr. Mercola and Mike Adams “The Health Ranger” have come forward listing agave as the worst “bandito” of all sweeteners — a claim reminding me of the “Most Wanted” posters of Mexican criminals I would see whenever I crossed the border between San Diego and Tijuana as a child.
My Experience with Agave
I was first exposed to agave by Dr. David Jubb who espoused its health benefits years ago claiming that it was low glycemic. My former company Nature’s First Law/Sunfood Nutrition (whom I no longer represent) and I sold different forms of agave for years. Originally, the agave was supplied by Joanne Cuddigan and David Korn of Holistic Enterprises. Eventually, the agave was supplied by Christopher Daugherty of Essential Living Foods who eventually had to admit that the agave was in fact cooked and not a raw-food product. According to various raw-food websites and www.foodprocessing.com, agave is cooked at 140 degrees Fahrenheit for 36 hours. Years of anecdotal feedback about agave and subsequent testing by Dr. Gabriel Cousens indicated that various yellow agave syrup products were, in fact, not only cooked, but high glycemic.
Then Robert Williams, the product sourcing professional for Ultimate Superfoods, gave me his take on agave. He claimed that high fructose corn syrup in the form of broken Mexican sugar candies were being added back into agave syrups and nectars. He brought to light that his research indicated that agave was heavily controlled by at least two very serious and very dangerous tequila mafias and that most of the products on the market were a complete fraud. Upon finding this out, I recommended that my business and I go only with Ultimate Superfoods clear (high inulin) agave (www.ultimatesuperfoods.com). Even though Ultimate’s product is not a cold-processed product, it was still the best product on the market as far as I could tell. My business partner (now former business partner) strongly rejected this plan causing at least one of the major rifts that caused me to exit my old company Sunfood Nutrition.
Currently Ultimate Superfoods claims their clear agave is around 50% fructose with a few percentage points of glucose — the rest being inulin. This is the claim, and only a chemical analysis will confirm if this is accurate. And that's where I am at with any claim — chemical analysis is what we all require as proof now.
Agave and Pulque
Agave products originally began to be consumed as a New World beverage in ancient times, probably in Mexico. The agave plant (sometimes called “The Century Plant”) is a very hardy desert succulent that has been categorized in its own Linnaean Family, now termed the Agavaceae. After about ten to twelve years, the edible agave varieties (blue agave, etc.) begin to develop a large fruiting stem at their center. This stem grows very strongly and rapidly eventually opening up flowers in its upper reaches that after pollination (usually by hummingbirds) turn into seeded fruits. The shape and structure of this flowering and fruiting stem is so unique that they were used in the background of original Star Trek episodes as alien plants on alien planets. The dried agave fruiting stems are often cleaned out, polished, and turned into didgeridoos.
Historically, the center-growing stem, once it began to form, would be cored or cut out. This would cause the agave to bleed a thin milky sap that was captured in a bowl each day. According to research done by author Jonathan Ott (and cited in my book Naked Chocolate), agave (once cored) can bleed 1,000 liters of liquid sap in the two months that it takes it to finally die. This is a huge amount of liquid to be liberated in a dry desert (like finding a spring). This thin milky sap would typically ferment forming a very popular beverage in ancient Mexico known as pulque.
To see agave sap being collected, watch this video. Pulque, a mildly alcoholic wine, is the original beverage, consumed right alongside chocolate drinks on the streets of Mexico City for over a thousand years and probably much longer. Processed pulque is still available today in nearly all major Mexican cities and in Los Angeles.
Fructose
“While agave syrup does have a low-glycemic index, so does antifreeze -- that doesn’t mean it’s good for you. Agave syrup has the highest fructose content of any commercial sweetener — ranging from 70 to 97 percent, depending on the brand, which is FAR HIGHER than high fructose corn syrup (HFCS), which averages 55 percent.” — Dr. Joseph Mercola
According to Dr. Robert Lustig, fructose is to blame for agave’s blues. Ten years ago, sucrose was the enemy. So which one is it? Sucrose or fructose? Over the last 40 years, sucrose consumption has actually been going down and fructose consumption has been going up. Obviously, obesity in the West has been increasing, and Dr. Lustig of UC San Francisco claims that the primary culprit is fructose.
To see Dr. Lustig’s presentation on fructose, click here.
Fructose is a sugar that is 1.73 times sweeter than sucrose (Source: Wiki). Like glucose and sucrose, fructose is known to be food for candida albicans and cancer cells. Sugar in many of its small and medium chain carbohydrate forms has been reported to rapidly elevate blood sugar levels causing the small gland known as the pancreas to secrete insulin to control blood sugar levels. Due to the intensity and quantity of sugars and carbohydrates being ingested daily by people all over the world and also due to the lack of minerals available to feed the pancreas so it can do its job properly, human metabolism begins to malfunction. This begins as mood swings and ADD symptoms in children as well as obesity, and eventually develops into hypoglycemia and/or diabetes. Hypoglycemia occurs when blood sugar sharply drops after an overproduction of insulin; causing low energy, mood swings, and intense hunger. Diabetes occurs when an underproduction of insulin causes blood sugar to elevate wildly; causing excessively sweet urine and body fatigue. Diabetes can eventually lead to demineralization, diabetic coma, and even death.
Natural fructose in fruits and honey is bound to other sugars and is therefore less glycemic and more natural than free fructose. High fructose corn syrup and common agave products contain free fructose. This free fructose appears to be the primary focus of the current controversy about sweeteners.
Mike Adams “The Health Ranger” states that: “The average person consumes about 98 pounds of highly refined corn fructose per year in the USA, that roughly translates into half a cup of refined fructose per day.”
According to Dr. Mercola, fructose, and especially free fructose, in quantities greater than 25 grams a day can cause an unhealthy increase in uric acid production, lead to weight gain, and, as Dr. Mercola told me in a private conversation, can become a major contributing factor in the development of a fatty liver.
Other problems with Agave
I have been to agave processing facilities in Mexico where Tequila is made. When the agave plant is mature (just as it starts its flowering stage) they trim off all the succulent and barbed leaves of the agave plant until it looks like a giant pineapple or the fruit of the pandanus tree. They then wrap a chain around it and tear it out of the ground with a truck. The entire agave plant is then cooked down, hydrolyzed with enzymes, and converted over through other chemical processes into a fructose syrup.
According to Dr. Mercola, here is a partial list of the chemicals many producers use:
Activated charcoal
Cationic and ionic resins
Sulfuric and/or hydrofluoric acid
Dicalite
Clarimex
Inulin enzymes
Fructozyme
All this chemistry obviously has nothing to do with how pulque was originally made and how the agave plant was originally used. The use of these chemicals also puts any organic certification of agave into question.
And that’s not the only problem, boiling down the entire agave plant may release toxic saponins present in the agave and yucca families of plants. These steroidal, abortive, and/or purgative compounds have not been confirmed to be present in agave products, however, exercise caution when using agave. In addition, agave products should be avoided during pregnancy until more research is conducted.
Conclusion
If you select agave as a sweetener, only use certified organic clear agave of the type Ultimate Superfoods distributes (www.ultimatesuperfoods.com). Be sure to request that every company selling agave provide laboratory data that their product is free of chemicals, contains a low percentage of fructose, contains a high percentage of inulin, and is free of toxic saponins.
After dealing with the agave blues, you may want to select another sweetener. Here are some options (in alphabetical order):
Coconut Palm Sugar: This is now available as a sweetener. It is usually heat processed, yet unconfirmed reports indicate raw coconut palm sugar is now available from Balinese sources. It is processed using lime (chalk) or mangosteen sap to neutralize acidity. Because of the calcification problems associated with eating chalk and the magic associated with the mangosteen tree, mangosteen sap processed coconut palm sugar is preferred.
Erythritol: Erythritol is made by breaking down plant starch into glucose. Then the yeast Moniliella pollinis is added to the glucose. Through fermentation, the glucose breaks down into erythritol. Metabolic, toxicological, and clinical studies covering areas as diverse as cancer, nervous system health, and allergic reactions have found erythritol to be safe. Erythritol has GRAS (generally recognized as safe) status in the United States. Seek out organic erythritol or products containing it.
Honey (raw, organic): Honey is always the natural sweetener of choice. Look for wild honey because it is lower in free fructose and higher in trace mineral content. Also, look for richer dark honeys (e.g. NoniLand honey, etc.)
Inulin: A long-chain polysaccharide that is mostly too long a sugar to absorb into the blood stream. Inulin may be isolated from Jerusalem artichoke or properly processed agave. Look for inulin powder or Jerusalem artichoke syrup. Too much inulin intake can cause digestive distress in certain people.
Lo Han Guo: A non-glycemic sweetener from Chinese medicinal tradition made from a type of wild cucumber.
Lucuma: Lucuma’s sugar content is low. The percentage amount present in the dried pulp from mature lucuma fruit is: 8.4% glucose, 4.7% fructose, 1.7% sucrose, and 0.06% inositol (http://www.buywholefoodsonline.co.uk/lucuma-powder);.
Maple syrup: this is the only sustainably-harvested, large-scale, forest sweetener in the world. Maple is likely the richest source of minerals found in any sweetener other than dark honeys and molasses. Look for organic maple syrup and maple crystals as an ingredient.
Molasses: Select unsulfured, organic sugarcane molasses because it is fairly rich in vitamins and minerals and has been purported (like fresh sugar cane) to have “anti-stiffness factors” that break down detrimental calcification (see my book The LongevityNOW Program).
Soak water: This is a natural sweetener from dried fruits such as date water, goji water, or dried fig water. Shop for organic dried fruit products and soak them in spring water for several hours to make your own fresh soak water.
Stevia: I recommend dried powdered leaves over extracts. This is a wonderful and easy plant to grow. It contains no real sugar, so therefore it does not feed candida or cancer. Look for organic stevia products.
Xylitol: This could be the sweetener of the future if it could be obtained with certified organic quality. Xylitol does not feed candida or cancer, but tastes normally sweet. Originally isolated from birch syrup; it is now available as a white powder.
Yacon: An extraordinarily easy to obtain and abundant subtropical to tropical tuber, relative to the Jerusalem artichoke. Yacon is commonly available as dehydrated chips and as a syrup. Look for organic products. Yacon syrup is rich in iron and only mildly glycemic.
Other sweeteners to avoid, besides common agave:
Refined white and brown sugars made from beet, sorghum, or sugarcane of all sorts, primarily due to genetically modified crop contamination.
Evaporated Cane Juice: Rapadura is one of the many names of this highly processed and highly heated product. This is almost pure sucrose, like maple, but lacks in minerals. Evaporated cane juice is known to aggravate all sugar-sensitive conditions from diabetes to candida to cancer. Evaporated cane juice can be certified organic. This product often sneaks into chocolate products, pre-made smoothies, and lots of vegan treats (because it is not processed with bone char).
Sorbitol: This sweetener is typically made from genetically modified corn starch. It was originally isolated from stone fruits of the genus Sorbus.
Other Considerations
The market is flooded with companies and products using all different kinds of sweeteners. Always select products containing certified organic sweeteners due to potential contamination from genetically modified corn and other crops that may contain glufosinate herbicides that damage your friendly healthy bacteria. Remember that certified organic sweeteners cannot be genetically modified (GMO).
Some companies, such as Sacred Chocolate (www.sacredchocolate.com) have avoided organic agave and use only organic maple crystals, coconut nectar, inulin, erythritol and stevia instead.
If organic agave is in a product, select only reputable companies that rigorously review all their ingredients, such as Superfood Snacks
|
|
Aya K
Trad climber
New York
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2010 - 03:00pm PT
|
I don't really care who uses and who doesn't use aspartame, but I was reading the thread and just needed to ask Brokedown a question.
What I have posted is based entirely on my own personal experience and research. I have in the past synthesized virtually every one of the compounds to which I have referred: Tetragastrin, Pentagastrin, Human Gastrin I Norleucine analogue. I have read all of the pertinent research papers by the Morely group in England, the group responsible for all the synthetic pathways and bioassay data.
1. Your personal experience involved having had some breath mints on an empty stomach, once, 18 years ago?
2. Who cares if you've synthesized any of these compounds? What does that have to do with anything? The only impression that leaves me with is that you're somehow trying to make yourself out to be an expert whom we should trust. So far you haven't convinced me of anything.
|
|
Aya K
Trad climber
New York
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2010 - 03:11pm PT
|
And Karl... just have to do a wtf not at you but at the first link you posted about agave (which I love; I love the taste and I love that it mixes easily even in cold beverages unlike honey) -but... it starts off by asserting that agave is made of starch, and I just have to say wtf? I'm pretty sure that there is NO starch in agave. Which pretty much leads me to not trust very much of anything else in there... and the second one... citing Dr. Mercola... that guy is a total nut in my book. Well intentioned, I'm sure, but I find that 90% of what he says is either sensationalist, flat out wrong, or both.
|
|
Double D
climber
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2010 - 03:28pm PT
|
My sister had a brain tumor years ago that had to be removed. The post-removal biopsy revealed high levels of aspartame. Nuf said for me.
|
|
Aya K
Trad climber
New York
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2010 - 03:38pm PT
|
Er, aspartame IN a tumor? are you certain about that?
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Oct 18, 2010 - 02:53pm PT
|
I guess the real question Aya is, what is the real glycemic index of Agave products and what processes are used in their manufacture? Do we have evidence outside the advertising claims of those selling it?
Peace
Karl
|
|
pc
climber
|
|
|
Oct 18, 2010 - 03:11pm PT
|
Karl,
Thanks for the posts. My wife tried to get me to use Agave in my coffee last year. I tried it for a week but gound I got stomach cramps/pain/upset. It took me a few days to realize it might be the Agave so I stopped and went back to regular sugar. No more upset/pain/cramps.
I'd sure like to see a full analysis of the product by a known neutral party.
Cheers,
pc
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 18, 2010 - 06:06pm PT
|
Too bad I retired and sold all of my lab equipment; I could have done something in that regard.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2010 - 01:07am PT
|
The Food and Drug Administration, the Joint Expert Committee on Food Additives (JECFA) of the World Health Organization, the Scientific Committee for Food of the European Community and regulatory agencies in more than 100 countries have reviewed aspartame and found it safe for use.
Some people have natural sensitivities to ingredients in a product. During your next visit, you may want to review the ingredient label with your physician.
From a confectioner company on an inquiry as to the safety of aspartame.
So far haven't read anything that convinces me, but too much of any one substance...
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2010 - 02:05am PT
|
riley
I never, in the original post, said anyone was going to die from aspartame. There are probably some long-term neurological effects, but I'm no neurologist....just a peptide chemist. My experience was most unpleasant, however, I will never touch the stuff again. I don't use sweetener in my coffee, don't smoke (tobacco or anything else), drink only an occasional soda pop (without aspartame), and drink alcohol moderately; none of these other substances had anywhere near the effect of aspartame on an empty stomach. It could probably be modified slightly to increase the safety of the substance: use an ethyl ester instead of a methyl ester, which would eliminate the post-hydrolytic cleavage toxicity of methanlo and the oxidation byproduct of formaldehyde. It would mean a massive recertification program at the FDA which I'm sure will never happen, since it would probably be about $100-$150 million to get it through the bureaurocracy.
Of course, some folks will suggest that my clean-living lifestyle is the reason for my sensitivity to aspartame! :D
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2010 - 02:34am PT
|
Riley-
My earlier comments were directly related to the potential physiologic effects of aspartame having hormonal activity; greatly reduced from the "native" peptide hormone gastrin I, but still some residual activity. I discussed this with one of my professional colleagues at the CU Med School in Denver shortly after my "experience," and he agreed with my hypothesis of the Gastrin-like activity causing blood to pool in the area of the stomach, causing dizziness. I am quite familiar with hormonal activity of peptides; the colleague to whom I have referred had a complete electrophysiology laboratory at the Med School, and frequently did the bioassays of peptides I synthesized.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2010 - 02:55am PT
|
"funny thing is i sometimes see 100 pts a day who are half dead from eating to much sugar.
but have never once seen a sick person from aspartame"
Thing is, how many patient had you seen sick from Asbestos before it was proven dangerous?
We don't really know who is sick from what sometimes. People feel like crap all over and it's hard to figure out exactly why, even if they aren't at death's door.
And we don't really know how many of the fat obese people are also Aspertame users either.
I use it a little, and a bunch of other potentials a little as well. I figure a little of each poison is safer than a lot of any poison.
Why don't we crave beans? All the addictive stuff is bad for you eh?
peace
karl
|
|
justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2010 - 12:12pm PT
|
I'm kinda with Rad on this one. The list of diseases and deaths directly linked to high-calorie diets of sugar and fat is pretty darn long and un-refutable in terms of scientific proof. Artificial sweeteners sort of offer a healthier alternative by comparison.
Almost every single person in my family is overweight with diabetes so there are some cold hard genetic issues at work that make real sugar problematic for me. My mother and I are the only exceptions. I opt for artificially sweetened products when possible. Mom doesn't do sweets or sweeteners at all.
Karl: That info on agave was interesting. I had no idea how the stuff is processed.
Aya: Starch = sugar
Double D: It seems really unlikely they would be able to calculate aspartame levels in a tumor... It doesn't really pool in your tissue that way, but I'm not a scientist.
Edit to add: I definitely know some overweight Diet Coke drinkers. Problem is.. their diets totally suck. Drinking the diet soft drinks is kinda just an aspartame-laced joke.
|
|
hafilax
Trad climber
East Van
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2010 - 02:14pm PT
|
A few years ago I read An Apple a Day which was basically a summary of food science at the time. His conclusion was that aspartame and all other sweeteners (as well as MSG) are, for the majority of people, harmless. The cases of high sensitivities are analogous to allergies. Peanuts can kill for example. My GF is a teacher and isn't allowed to bring any nuts to her classroom. Aspartame has been around for a long time and there are no long term studies that show a high correlation between it and any diseases.
All of the artificial sweeteners basically work by having a "sweetness/amount" that is many times greater than sugar. For aspartame it's something like 300000. That means that minuscule amounts are needed to sweeten things to the same degree as sugar. Personally, I don't like the taste but I won't turn down free food with it.
BTW, brown sugar is typically white sugar with a little molasses added back in so I would say that it isn't much better for you than white sugar.
|
|
justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2010 - 02:47pm PT
|
Just got back from getting my teeth cleaned. My dentist can't say enough good things about artificial sweeteners in terms of preventing periodontal disease BTW.
|
|
hafilax
Trad climber
East Van
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2010 - 05:04pm PT
|
Margarine was invented for Napoleon as a butter substitute for the army and lower class in 1869.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!