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yo
climber
The Eye of the Snail
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bwahaha
That's how we get the ropes up there, Buzz!
I've just pulled out of the driveway, but I am on this Road...
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Hi Roger-
I know what you mean. Most of my most terrifying offwidth episodes were in the valley when big cams were rare--during the obligatory "offwidth mastery" era--prompted, I believe, by Walt and Russ. Maybe Willy Joe had something to do with it too. Werner, of course, had already mastered the art of offwidths by that time, and would lead any previewers up Twilight Zone by request. The cumulation of the Valley Offwidth Tour was an ascent of Bad-Ass Mama (though that was a generally a toprope problem).
But when I got to Zion, I had managed to get a set of homemade big cams, and it made all the difference on the hard ones (if you're doing more than a pitch or two in Zion, you better have the offwidth technique down pat!). Thirty or forty feet between pro--no problem with a big cam above you at all times, with an occasional tube-chock left behind here and there. Whoo-hoo!
The road to Bad-Ass Mama...
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Glad to see this thread back. The road from Bad ass moma to the Owl and beyond, seems to be in the desert, vedauwoo and the black.
As far as the hardest, I think some of the new hard boulder problems in vedauwoo are the thing, or so they tell me, some odub roofs that approach crackhouse (mainpart) length. Even I can point you to some of the weird inversions.
University of Mars, once an ultimate, is now part of the foyer.
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Brutus of Wyde
climber
Old Climbers' Home, Oakland CA
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Bob Harrington on Chrysler Crack.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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I hope that you don't mind too much, Tom. I am posting stuff I copied from your site.
"Notes From Old Diary
 Cream: hard part is early while still fresh; secure higher with good knee fit; tube chocks up to 6 inches were cumbersome, but pretty secure; nice line.
Twilight Zone: t-bars and tubes did not work well; felt mostly 3rd class; quite insecure and strenuous all the way until, strangely, crux where pinches down and is more technical (getting around pro) than scary; key lore is Pratt hung at crux, yelled to T.M. Herbert to run to car to get bong, hauled it up, finished climb; some say big friends make this much easier on the mind, but talk to trusted ones before go as climb has ugly, knifing flakes at bottom.
Left Side of Slack: tubes and bars did not work too well, but climb felt much more safe than TZ with no fall prospect onto piercing flakes; crux creeps up, wearing you out if don’t go easy; overall, good, stiff starter off-width given easy access too.
Despair: quite secure off width; sharp edge to grab, good heel toe with right side in, stronger side for most; good bolt protected it in old days; key lore - here Frank Sacherer nearly pulled Tom Gerughty off because young, inexperienced Tom stepped on a bolt to rest; some old mentors were pretty strict about free being free.
Edge of Night: very hard technically due to nasty flare; easy to flail and try to overpower; again, bongs and bars not good; modern big friends probably much better.
Hourglass: right side has pretty short crux and not too hard, but hard to protect with bars and tubes (left side crux is very hard undercling, not off width); remote, peaceful feel to Ribbon Falls area and views to soaring west wall of El Cap.
Hope this helps."
So, John, is Bob packing big cams, or what?
Roger
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WBraun
climber
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Good f'ckin gawd
That looks obscene with those giant cams, like seeing silicon tits.
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ec
climber
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"...when big cams were rare--during the obligatory "offwidth mastery" era..."
"I tried t-zone once - but I didn't have the rack for it."
'Ya mean you didn't have some of these on your rack?
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Jaybro, I remember you were one of the Offwidth Wuli Masters, back in the day. Still cranking the big stuff?
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Of all those off widths mentioned by folks, I found Edge of Night harder than all the rest (though I haven't done Mental Block). Most of the others I did many times but not Edge of Night, which I couldn't get inside at all (too fat) and had to climb left side in. It felt like I was barely staying in the thing and could have popped anytime. Back in the day before cams, the Right Side of Bongs Away (or was it Absolutely Free--can't remember) basically had no pro at all. At least you could get the odd thing in the Zone.
There was another flare down at the Cookie, just left of Catchy, rated 5.9 and used to spit people out like crazy. Can't remember the name though. That thread on Chingando brought back some old groveling memories.
It's good to know that Pratt's Zone is still revered. Chuck was one of the great ones. Wasn't it Sachar that did the 2nd ascent, or was it Robbins?
JL
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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JL: Edge of Night..... Rt side in for me....?
Did it with Cilley back in the day.... he was leading and I could not see him from the belay..... the going is slow...... he yells down
"Russ.... do you want to lead this?"
I yell back, "How's the fall?"
There is a long pause..... then Dick yells in a resigned to his fate sort of voice..... "It's death Russ...."
Classic! He keeps going and does the thing and I follow.... can't remember the pro, if any.
Melissa Edit: JL, the mental block is cake compared to the TZ or Edge of Night
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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The pro on Edge of Night isn't so bad. There's not only a bolt somewhere near the crux, but also a place for a 4" tube chock or a bong of the same size, slotted like a nut (that's what we got when I climbed it with Kevin W.).
Ah, The Cleft . . . Now that one is actually easy if you have the right technique, which is a sort of inverted chicken wing, like mantling off an arm bar you just keep moving up. It's a very weird size, right between a chimney and a true off size.
And how about that squeeze on E. Chimney of Rixons? Not so hard but tight as hell and horrendous on the knees.
Back to Twilight Zone. I'm sort of amazed that more folks don't climb Outer Limits or the Elevator Shaft and just top rope the thing. Also, rememer the last pitch of the Zone. There used to be a weird 5.9 crack followed by an exit move over a big hummock
that was grooved by ropes passing over it.
I really think that if you went down and spent a few days doing laps on Ahab--till you got the size dialed in-- you'd be in good shape for the Zone providing yo have the fittness. Ahab is the same side in as TZ, same kind of movement with your back against the wall and roughly the same size and technique (but shorter crux). As others mentioned, Left Side of the Slack and Reeds also have similar climbing.
JL
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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I am pretty sure that Jim told me that Chuck climbed 'The Cleft' three times before committing its grade to 5.9 for Steve's first guide.
The alternative was 5.8.
Just kidding. Certainly puts it in the unique class 5.9cp.
Roger
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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"Back to Twilight Zone. I'm sort of amazed that more folks don't climb Outer Limits or the Elevator Shaft and just top rope the thing."
I've taken TR's on many if not most of the routes on the list whether I was ready or not just to learn the techniques and get stronger w/ them. I'm chipping away at trying to lead them, although I'm still at the low end of the list. Twilight Zone is the piece de resistance to be saved for when it all appears to be working. I think I'm not alone in wanting to do it right when I do it. But probably a lot of people would just rather do Outer Limits every time too. (And maybe when push comes to shove, so do I!).
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Alexey
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Melissa, I just recently climbed Outer Limits and was thinking to TR Twilight Zone, but did not. Looks tricky to set top rope without big gear. How You did set it up?
Also, in case I' ll be ready to lead it sometimes what is gear recomendations from those who led it
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HalHammer
Trad climber
CA
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Still curious where the Lost Arrow Chimney fits into the list at?
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Alexy,
I've never set up a TR on T. Zone. I was quoting John's suggestion and saying that maybe it doesn't get done so much b/c T. Zone might be a sort of graduation from the ow practice circuit.
But if I was going to TR it, I would do so by handing the rack and the sharp end to my partner. Sorry I'm not more help...
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Colby
Social climber
Ogdenville
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This is a sweet thread. I like the offwidth recommendations. I'll jump on them next year.
Twilight Zone was the first route I ever jumped on in Yosemite when I visited this past summer. I was demoralized - I couldn't even get up it. I think it's stout. I was going to use it as training for the Steck-Salathe - my first long route in the park - which, by the way, has nothing nearly as hard as TZ. It doesn't seem like too many people climb the Steck. It's an excellent route.
Russ, did you say you went right side in on TZ? All of the photos I've seen lead me to believe left is the way to go. I'll have to try right next time.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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I lead Edge 'o' night right side in. The pro was good enough ( '78?)that I wasn't worried about death but was still motivated to not fall that far.
John Midd, I still get on the wides, climbed Bellyfull of bad berries two octobers back. Sunday I climbed entrance exam that is much easier, but still I was glad to have been prepared by years of pursuing ow's. Those guys were STOUT™™™™™™ back in '65 withough harnesses, nuts or what we today know as climbing shoes!
Melissa, yeah, when the time is right is what it's all about. That used to be significant because of the pro, but still it's so much better style, and ultimately more rewarding, to get on something like that when you are physically and mentally ready for it.
All of these things are way harder than the wide in the LA chimney (or,SS). INMHO the seriousness of the LA has little to do with crux wide moves.
Brutus was it even possible to place those things on that pitch?
Why, once upon a time did so many parents name their future climbing sons,"John"?
John Anderson
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I'm sort of amazed that more folks don't climb Outer Limits or the Elevator Shaft and just top rope the thing.
Actually, you can walk around to get on top...
...but I did really like Elevator Shaft 5.8 and recommend it, I don't think it is runout on modern gear.. it is a classic back-foot chimney, and dead vertical... totally wild! and relatively easy...
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