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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2010 - 02:56pm PT
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Lois, you are a working nurse.
I am happy you like your job, as I like mine being an employer.
I do not have the desire to become a nurse.
And as such I would never presume that I do your job.
Being a working nurse does not give you any unique automatic insights into the exact intent and language and factual content in the legislation.
You, like me and anyone else, have to actually become knowledgeable about the bill by taking the time to read and understand it.
I am nothing special, but I would never pretend to be qualified to comment in either a positive or negative manner on anything, anything, unless I first learned all about it.
But that is just me. I understand that some others comment first without knowing all the pertinent and salient facts that underlie the intent behind legislative efforts.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Sep 24, 2010 - 03:12pm PT
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LEB....what did obama do to foster bipartisanship?...as i remember , obama bent over backwards to include the republicans in the healthcare legislation....the republicans, who were deadset against socialised medicine in the first place , had a well documented agenda of vetoing anything that obama brought to the table...it is disingenous to imply that obama was not bipartisan and that the republicans actually are interested in nationalised healthcare.....rj
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 24, 2010 - 04:32pm PT
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Well I am no expert but the version of this story I heard...
OK, that would stop most people there from spouting in a public forum. One, you admit you don't know what you're talking about; and, two, all your info is from third hand sources, which are as valid as well, you know where I'm going with this.
So much so say. So little worth listening to.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Sep 24, 2010 - 04:36pm PT
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LEB said Did you do a cost analysis of finding a "decent plan" to cover you versus "kicking over" the difference to have you covered on your parents plan?
Uh no. Because I wasn't ALLOWED to be on my parent's plan because I was ineligible after graduating from college back before the evil Obamacare monster gave me the option. I was forced to get an individual plan which, for the same coverage, is obviously going to be way more expensive. In fact from what I recall I was forced to get a catastrophic plan with a massive deductible for about the same monthly premium as I'm currently paying right now for my daughter with 1/10th the deductible and no cap on a group plan through an employer.
Also, I really, really doubt that someone with considerable health problems is going to find an individual plan that will cost "just as much" as their parent's group plan, if they can get coverage at all. This seems like fantasy.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sep 24, 2010 - 04:51pm PT
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It's too late to be loking for insurance if you're "someone with considerable health problems". You have bigger problems than money.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 24, 2010 - 05:04pm PT
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Unless you are actually there on Capital Hill while all these events are ongoing - EVERYONE (including YOU) must rely on second hand sources.
I didn't know you were a strict empiricist. You sound like the guy on another post who said if we weren't there when the earth was created, we can't prove that evolution is a legit theory. BS. There's ample public record, etc. Plus, if you weren't there either (and according to your own argument, therefore cannot confirm its truth) why are you spouting this stuff like it's true?
Though I know you'll respond, you don't have to. I know it'll be a bunch of cryptic BS.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Sep 24, 2010 - 05:06pm PT
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This health care plan is absolutely worthless.
The only success it will see is with the lawyers and insurance companies getting around it.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 24, 2010 - 05:09pm PT
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It's too late to be loking for insurance if you're "someone with considerable health problems". You have bigger problems than money.
I have gone into serious debt twice because of my health problems, and lost everything once, but I still want a life. I am still willing to work for it, but that becomes harder and harder when I know that the next downturn will wipe out all of my gains. That is the problem with our current system. Once you lose your health insurance, then it is impossible to get new insurance that covers your condition, especially if your condition is an ongoing problem.
So if you get your health back, and work hard, all your income is still at risk because you have no health insurance.
Insurance is meant to spread the risk and cost among everyone. Instead it denies those with health problems. You may be fine with that as long as you are healthy, but I imagine you would be singing a different tune if you lost your health and your insurance.
Sure, if you stay sick and stay poor you can stay on medicaid, but if you regain your health and start earning again, then you lose medicaid and you have no way to get insurance, unless you can get work with a major corporation that provides insurance, and in this day and age that is getting tougher and tougher.
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pc
climber
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Sep 24, 2010 - 05:13pm PT
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rlf, Did you not see Jello's post above.
It's not worthless. It's a start.
pc
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Sep 24, 2010 - 05:19pm PT
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LEB-
These plans allow parents to insure their children at very reasonable rates. Because of these plans, insuring children is not typically problematic BUT we must compare apples to appl
I'm pretty sure those plans are called "Medicaid." I have an employer based plan just like the one that I would have been on had I been able to stay on my parent's plan as a young'un.
Chaz said It's too late to be loking for insurance if you're "someone with considerable health problems". You have bigger problems than money.
Right, because I mean what is a sick person going to do with money in a capitalist healthcare regime? I mean really? It's not like you can PAY for things that make you better or more comfortable. It's just straight to the death panels.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Sep 24, 2010 - 05:29pm PT
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It is not that there are NO benefits to the new plan. I did not say it was ALL bad. I said it was not much improvement considering all the hoopla about it and considering how broken the system is. We deserved a whole lot more than that, as a nation, and we are paying quite a bit for relatively small improvements. Congress under the putative leadership of our current president could have done much, MUCH better. The current permutations do not address some of the major ills which plague us.
LEB, do you regularly turn around in front of a mirror to check how your second face is doing?
on antoher thread bashing obama, now blaming him for having to deal with your repugs faults?
at least in bed your husband can pick between which face he is making love to...
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 24, 2010 - 05:53pm PT
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It would have helped if our Pres had not caved in and sold out to the insurance business and big pharma, as Karl aptly pointed out.
OK, for once I don't think you're going to get a lot of argument with this. However, the maddening thing about you LEB, is that while you chide Obama for at least trying to do something constructive, despite FIERCE opposition from the right, you nevertheless defend the right, whose version of a healthcare bill would have been a wish list for the healthcare industry.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Sep 24, 2010 - 05:58pm PT
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I don't think you could have considered ANYTHING about the HCR process "expedient" and the only reason it passed was because Obama wasn't fighting Congress AND all the industry groups at the same time.
LEB- what concessions did Obama make to Pharma and health insurance companies that you would want to have seen rolled back? Or is this just a vague "he sold" out admonition?
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Sep 24, 2010 - 06:01pm PT
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Yes I did. It's worthless. It's not even a start.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Sep 24, 2010 - 06:18pm PT
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LEB- CHIP and SCHIP are essentially Medicaid programs designed to patch gaps in the Medicaid system specifically for children. And 23 year olds with Bachelors degrees don't qualify so I'm not real clear on how you think those programs are viable alternatives to the issue at hand. Or are we on some tangential LEB "look a squirrel" path where you don't even know how we got here anymore?
You don't put any credibility in anything I have ever told you - even when I am trying to help you. You always knew it all and told me about "stuff" even when I had far more experience with it. Why would you give any credence to what I tell you now.
When have you ever tried to help me other than asking me for details about my personal life and then using them as ammo in later discussion? I realize in real life people may look to you for advice on things but on this forum you've pretty well proven that you rarely have any specific information on almost anything you're talking about. We ask for it and you say "I already gave it" or give some more vagueries and then give me more tears when we call you on it.
If we could have had a public option
That's a great example. The public option died after your girl Palin and the Repub crew took an axe to it, not as a concession from Obama prior to the HCR debate. If you can't specifically name the objectionable concessions that got Pharma/insurance on board then it's not really a great criticism. Unless your argument is that we need a single payer healthcare system in which case you'd have a real argument and also be a socialist RINO.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2010 - 07:02pm PT
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Want to some easy money?
Wait about two years, then start buying the stocks of the for maximum profit big healthcare deniers.
Their profits will grow strongly when 31million people get health insurance, and they can buy it from anyone they want.
Talk about this being a boon for the entire industry!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2010 - 07:10pm PT
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Who was the ignorant one who said people would be "forced" to buy insurance?
More death panel fear selling talk from those who are too god damn stupid to read for themselves.
You think people are going to be arrested, forced under the threat of jail if they don't?
Christ, people are SO FUKING IGNORANT, and with ignorance comes FEAR, and LYING.
Then vote Republican and vote to have it repealed, you uneducated dipshits.
Just like you horses asses voted to put Caribou Barbie one heartbeat away from being Commander in Chief.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Sep 24, 2010 - 09:44pm PT
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Well you are forced to either get health insurance or pay a tax penalty that goes towards a premium for a gov't plan. I would call that "forced."
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sep 24, 2010 - 09:50pm PT
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And those who don't feel like buying insurance or paying the tax penalty will soon find themselves looking at Federal Prison time.
Right now, those who don't feel like participating are simply left alone.
Prosecuting Americans who aren't doing anything wrong - and who would rather be left alone - is tyranical.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Sep 24, 2010 - 09:59pm PT
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Federal prison time? Now you're dreaming. And I hate to break this to you Chaz but you are already participating. You are already part of the system. We were all paying for your personally irresponsible ass long before Obama was Senator much less President. Unless you pay cash upfront for everything that every happens to you and simply refuse medical care if you can't afford it regardless of how hurt or sick you are, the rest of us are going to wind up picking up the tab. In fact, even if you DO do that the rest of us pay for it. Because your family suffers and you lose work time and the people you work with have to pick up the slack. Being sick is a pretty hefty drag on the economy.
If you "don't want to participate" you shouldn't live in a functioning country. America is not the libertarian utopia you were looking for.
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