Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
|
Sep 14, 2010 - 11:14am PT
|
“I feel it kinda neat how a republican state can have so many of their ilk on welfare......
don't get me wrong.. there are plenty of folk that really need it...
But then there is that one religion that seems to thrive on state funding....
sort of... talking advantage (if you ask me, which.. no one did, so I leave it out there)”
Perhaps these tables can help validate… your implied welfare stereotype of Utah (and Mormons), Jingy. Not the most appropriate discussion, this, but the information can be saved for sequel flame threads, future finger pointing…upshot arraignments of mormonism.
Total per capita FEDERAL welfare spending--defined as childhood nutrition programs, food stamp programs, WIC benefits, and TANF benefits--by state.
From http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2009/04/per-capita-federal-welfare-expenditures.html
From http://www.caltax.org/research/spending96/spend96.htm
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Sep 14, 2010 - 11:26am PT
|
American Massacre
by Sally Denton
A recent offering that suggests that besides the 120 victims of the Fancher train there were also disaffected mormons who had joined the train in Springville among the dead.
The introduction details the excavation that was done in 1999 in order to erect a marker.
Much to the chagrin of everyone the backhoe bucket came up with 30 pounds of human remains and, by law, the site had to be shut down and declared a crime scene.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Sep 14, 2010 - 11:40am PT
|
Jingy doesn't seem to be aware of the difference between LDS and FLDS.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Sep 14, 2010 - 12:09pm PT
|
Wes forgot the women with weird dresses and high hair.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Sep 14, 2010 - 12:55pm PT
|
No.
The LDS church got into trouble with us jews for baptizing Holocaust victims.
|
|
couchmaster
climber
pdx
|
|
|
Sep 14, 2010 - 01:36pm PT
|
The LDS church got into trouble with us jews for baptizing Holocaust victims.
I've seen some folks get real pissed at baptisms of the dead after the fact so that they are "saved" (cough * Moof's grandma* cough), and have wondered why the angst. Isn't it like getting full coverage insurance without having to pay a nickle more?
Sorry to change the subject which I knew of and had read about, but didn't put the date together till this post - thanks.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Sep 14, 2010 - 02:26pm PT
|
Sometimes its not the coverage but the company. LOL
|
|
Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
|
|
|
Sep 14, 2010 - 04:20pm PT
|
Ron - "Jingy doesn't seem to be aware of the difference between LDS and FLDS. "
true...
I shy away from anything LDS...
but thanks for explaining.. you two...
very clear now...
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
|
Sep 14, 2010 - 09:51pm PT
|
I've seen some folks get real pissed at baptisms of the dead after the fact so that they are "saved" (cough * Moof's grandma* cough), and have wondered why the angst. Isn't it like getting full coverage insurance without having to pay a nickle more?
Hi Couchmaster, The LDS don’t represent baptism as unmitigated passage to salvation. In LDS doctrine, Hell is more metaphor for dissolute state of mind and spirit...no one burning in an eternal Hell. The unforgiven are remanded to incarnation of atonement similar to the Roman Catholic concept of Purgatory or Judaism’s Gehenna ...an abstract state of loss and spiritual punishment... rather than a fiery place of torture.
Willful shedding of innocent blood is not forgivable. But no variety of atonement requires debasement and pain through all eternity.
Baptism is seen as an outward manifestation of one’s desire to follow Christ rather than an ordinance with guarantee of being “saved” from punishment or spiritual death. LDS precepts define salvation more in general terms, as personal dispossession of one’s tendency to do evil rather than a free pass from culpability.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Sep 14, 2010 - 10:33pm PT
|
What WC is overlooking is that the FLDS only became the LDS when its leadership was threatened with extermination by Buchanan at the hands of a battalion of US Calvary.
Bayonets seem to encourage visions of theological change.
(Don't go into denial now Jennie)
Once the change was forced to start it has progressed inexorability. It is now almost indistinguishable in practice from most Christian sects when you remove the magic underwear, and other goofy accouterments. And, it is still rapidly progressing in the direction of a more mainstream denomination unimpeded. In an other 50 years or so they will be indistinguishable from Methodists.
The carry forward is that Islam will only change from the misogynistic cult of the child molesting warlord with similar intense pressure. That was the whole point of Iraq. The necessity to plant a functioning liberal democracy in the heart of the caliphate to serve as the seed grain of sand to start the pearl of transformation in Islam.
Sadly ,there isn't the wisdom or patience to see that effort to fruition.
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
|
Sep 14, 2010 - 11:15pm PT
|
What WC is overlooking is that the FLDS only became the LDS when its leadership was threatened with extermination by Buchanan at the hands of a battalion of US Calvary.
Bayonets seem to encourage visions of theological change.
(Don't go into denial now Jennie)
Your interpretations of history are always interesting, TGT.
I must give you credit for bringing up the war footing in effect when the Meadow Mountain Massacre transpired. Any discerning individual understands what transpired at MM was unforgivable…but some, here, would have you believe it all happened in a vacuum and disregard the provocations of the government and …omit the onerous taunting of the Fancher party…including boasting by some that they had participated in the Haun’s Mill massacre of mormons.
If you’re implying President Buchanan’s bayonets inspired abandonment of polygamy, how do you account for the thirty-three year hesitation ?
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2010 - 12:49am PT
|
Baptism is seen as an outward manifestation of one’s desire to follow Christ...
Well then, it makes perfect sense to baptize someone who is already dead... especially if they are a Jew or maybe just Jew"ish". You people crack me up.
It makes sense if you believe there is free will in the afterlife. Proxy baptism is contingent upon whether or not the individual, in the spirit realm, accepts the meaning and covenant that baptism represents.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Sep 22, 2010 - 04:01pm PT
|
The weird thing about that protest was the way so many of the protesters were clueless about the word "trust" as a legal term and instead misconstrued its meaning as though some kind of verbal agreement had been violated and they were being dishonorably dealt with, when in fact they were experiencing due process of law.
KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SIGNING!
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!