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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Sep 10, 2010 - 01:45pm PT
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tell us how you really feel skipt!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Sep 10, 2010 - 01:52pm PT
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My daughter teaches math at an economically disadvantaged public high school. The school has been in operation continuously since the 1930's. About four years ago the school was doing so poorly that WASC (the Western Association of Schools and Colleges [that accredits high schools, colleges and universities in the western states]) gave them only provisional accreditation.
My daughter and several other young tigers were moved to that school by the district, and scores have improved dramatically. The parents still remain somewhere between helpless and disengaged. My daughter still encounters scores of freshmen who cannot do simple arithmetic, and are functionally illiterate, but were somehow promoted to ninth grade. Finally, they're being exposed to teachers who do not tolerate that level of ignorance.
While I think learning is ultimately the responsibility of the putative learner, teachers and parents make a big difference. Blaming solely the teachers makes as little sense as blaming solely the parents. Both play critical roles, and it's a cop-out to use poor performance by one to excuse poor performance by the other.
John
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pc
climber
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Sep 10, 2010 - 02:02pm PT
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Aha. Is the truth coming out Skipt?
You're in the business of "for pay" schools?
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SharpSpoons
Boulder climber
SD,CA
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Sep 10, 2010 - 02:02pm PT
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Good evening folks.
I've more or less recently became quite interested in climbing. A well-read SSgt of mine referenced this site for climbing gear and reviews. Being chained to a desk, I began to cruise the rest of the site, and, lo and behold, I found this forum.
First things first: Certain posters in this forum seems to exist in a world where all things political, along with politcal parties, are black and white. I see this as nothing but the rosy glasses of Left/Right extremism. Reading the other topics "(Clash of the Civilizations, et al.)made me laugh at BOTH sides of the arguements. Between quoting polls (which tend to be politcally biased towards the nature of whatever media outlets politcal views are. They're going to be very similar to the viewers own politcal stance, otherwise they wouldn't be watching/reading.)and using statistics (which are falliacies to use in any debate settings, such as this)
Ad Hoc arguments and all-sweeping statments (like this topics title, for example) and pure internet trolling seem to have gripped both sides in a never ending circle.
Look, I'm currently deployed. I'm very much intune with the situation here and at home. I have things I do not necissarily agree with, but I listen and take stock in "the other sides" argument, before I go on rambling about my own opinions. there are things on "both sides" that I very much agree with, or disagree with. But it seems that for some here at least, they have bought into their prefered sides extremist arguments, and not listening to how stupid it really is. it all sounds like a stubborn five-year-olds arguing about who has the "cooler" dad/toy/imaginary friend.
Just two cents from a deployed guy.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 10, 2010 - 02:20pm PT
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Also why I'm in favor of a voter competency test.
Sure Fatty. Here's a test that conservative white voters used in the South to exclude black voters: "How many bubbles are in a bar of soap?"
BTW, a knowledge of civics does not overpower greed.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Sep 10, 2010 - 02:43pm PT
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"I love math... I wish I didn't grow up in Utah where anything beyond adding and subtracting was considered witchcraft."
That witchcraft in Utah is really working. Seems that state's graduates score higher on SAT math test than any of her sister states to the west...AND also higher than Rocky Mountain states excepting Colorado.
...sixteenth in the nation in math.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 10, 2010 - 02:51pm PT
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WHY are Americans so stupid?
In part because we have transitioned from a task orientated society to a personal
gratification and entertainment orientated society.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 10, 2010 - 02:55pm PT
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From the movie Idiocracy.
"So you're smart, huh? I thought your head would be bigger.~ President Camacho
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Sep 10, 2010 - 02:59pm PT
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Jennie,
I'm glad I saw your source of the SAT score table (i.e. college-bound seniors). At first, I thought we were in Lake Woebegone, where everyone is above average!
Norton,
Your comment on the transformation of society is spot-on.
John
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SharpSpoons
Boulder climber
SD,CA
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Sep 10, 2010 - 02:59pm PT
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Well, lets put it this way:
What does the nation, as a whole, have to work towards?
We don't have a national goal, unlike the 1910's (great Depression/ WWI), the 20's(again, WWI/rebuilding), 40's(WWII), the 50's-80's (Baby boomer/technological explosion along with communism, and its percieved threat of a WWIII, Nuclear-style).
There's a global stagnation amongst the 1st world countries.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Springdale UT
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Sep 10, 2010 - 03:00pm PT
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^ house of representin' !!!
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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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Sep 10, 2010 - 03:02pm PT
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LEB, public elementary school--Butte, America
It's NOT about the teacher/student relationship(s)--it all boils down to administration...
edit: if YOU had kids, then you'd probably have a clue, but since you don't, well.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Sep 10, 2010 - 03:21pm PT
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SharpSpoons
Sep 10, 2010 - 11:02am PT
Good evening folks.
I've more or less recently became quite interested in climbing. A well-read SSgt of mine referenced this site for climbing gear and reviews. Being chained to a desk, I began to cruise the rest of the site, and, lo and behold, I found this forum.
First things first: Certain posters in this forum seems to exist in a world where all things political, along with politcal parties, are black and white. I see this as nothing but the rosy glasses of Left/Right extremism. Reading the other topics "(Clash of the Civilizations, et al.)made me laugh at BOTH sides of the arguements. Between quoting polls (which tend to be politcally biased towards the nature of whatever media outlets politcal views are. They're going to be very similar to the viewers own politcal stance, otherwise they wouldn't be watching/reading.)and using statistics (which are falliacies to use in any debate settings, such as this)
Ad Hoc arguments and all-sweeping statments (like this topics title, for example) and pure internet trolling seem to have gripped both sides in a never ending circle.
Look, I'm currently deployed. I'm very much intune with the situation here and at home. I have things I do not necissarily agree with, but I listen and take stock in "the other sides" argument, before I go on rambling about my own opinions. there are things on "both sides" that I very much agree with, or disagree with. But it seems that for some here at least, they have bought into their prefered sides extremist arguments, and not listening to how stupid it really is. it all sounds like a stubborn five-year-olds arguing about who has the "cooler" dad/toy/imaginary friend.
Just two cents from a deployed guy. Underlining the more glaring spelling errors, apart from lack/misuse of capital letters at the start of sentences, and apostrophe misuse. Marking with a red pen isn't a feasible teaching technique, given the forum's limitations.
It is common to use, and misuse, statistics when debating.
SharpSpoons
Boulder climber
SD,CA Sep 10, 2010 - 11:59am PT
Well, lets put it this way:
We don't have a national goal, unlike the 1910's (great Depression/ WWI), the 20's(again, WWI/rebuilding), 40's(WWII), the 50's-80's (Baby boomer/technological explosion along with communism, and its percieved threat of a WWIII, Nuclear-style). The Great Depression (in the US) began in autumn 1929, and arguably didn't end until 1940-41. Communism was at least rhetorically alleged to be a serious threat to the US from 1918 on, except perhaps for 1941 - 44.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2010 - 03:22pm PT
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Truth be told we are all glad that you don't have the responsibility of children.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Sep 10, 2010 - 03:25pm PT
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Lolli, most students do get loans in this country. Some kids leave college $100,000 in debt. Not a good way to start off in life.
In California, higher education used to be free, for the most part. I have a climbing friend who's a PHD. His education in California cost him a total of $500. This free education is no longer the case, and one reason why California is falling behind.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2010 - 03:26pm PT
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Gary it is one reason America is falling behind.
Be careful out there SharpSpoon, watch your top knot.
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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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Sep 10, 2010 - 03:40pm PT
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Amen, philo, regarding your reference to the LEB...
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wbw
climber
'cross the great divide
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Sep 10, 2010 - 03:42pm PT
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Pate, I'm certainly not patting myself on the back, although I do find parenting to be very satisfying. I agree with you except I would rephrase what you said as, what I'm doing *should* be the normal responsibility of a parent. A responsible parent *should* do whatever they reasonably can to support the education of their kid. In practice, many do not. That may be the single biggest obstacle to improving public education.
Skip, the assumptions you make reveal a lot about you. So let me guess: you're an elitist Republican, you sit and j.o. at your computer for most of the work day, and you probably make double what I make as a teacher.
You obviously think we're all a bunch of idiots, and have no accountability. I work in a very high achieving high school, where the parents demand a quality education for their kids. If I don't perform my job at a high standard, not only will I fall short of my own expectations, those parents would be on my case hard. Ultimately I would lose my job.
We've had school choice for years, with no significant positive impact on the quality of public education. It just gives elitist parents like Skip a chance to get what they perceive as private school quality for the price of a public school education.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Sep 10, 2010 - 03:44pm PT
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I gotta agree with Ed, it all starts at home. If the kids aren't taught that education is a priority at home, they don't feel any compelling reason to succeed. They WILL live up to the expectations that are placed on them.
My kids went to some of the supposedly "best" and "worst" public schools in their districts, they thrived and did well in all of them. Why do you think that the Asian kids did so well in school? It's not because they are inherently smarter, it's because their families stressed the importance of education. We had struggling families of all color and creed in our schools and the ones who's families were involved in the school, and their kids educations, did very well.
Sure, there are bad teachers and good, but as a whole I never experienced that it was the school or the teacher that was keeping any of the kids from succeeding. Look in the mirror if your child isn't doing well, that's the best place to start.
A dollar saved on education today, will cost us exponetially more in welfare, public safety, and outsourcing, down the road.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2010 - 03:56pm PT
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Right on MossMan!
Education is incredibly important in my household.
My eldest just started at CU. He started off in elementary school with a mild learning disability and through the selfless devotion of his public education teachers he has thrived.
I believe that teaching is the noblest profession and parenting the most important job.
I am curious Skiptothenon-sequitur, do you have kids?
I am about to head out for the Big Ditch. Hoping for no lightning!
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