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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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healyje, you seem to want to stop the history/progression at an arbitrary point in time. Climbing develops to a point, you and your friends start doing routes, and it's like you just want 'progress' to cease right there, and we all do the same thing for the rest of time.
You seem to never miss an opportunity to tell us all what you did, and just how great it was. Well, I came into climbing a little later than you, and I like what's happened (for the most part) and I'm also excited by new ideas and technology.
I remember reading a bit about Yaniro and his route Scirocco in the Needles. A mostly unprotectable arete, and he put it up by hanging from aid while drilling the bolts. I couldn't believe this was a revolutionary tactic, just 20 years ago.
But hell, maybe I'm just as guilty. I like music from when I was in high school and college, and think most new stuff stinks. Damn whippersnappers!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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caughtinside, the times I've brought up what I or my partners did has typically been in response to someone questioning my background as Bob did earlier in this thread.
And again, just for the record, I have no problem per se with the technical evolution of climbing, but with the impact and access problems brought about by the very large population of climbers that are supported wholly be gyms and bolted routes. Period. I didn't even have an issue with sport climbers dogging on .13 and up routes given back then it was clear they were never going to go any other way. I did have a problem with the fact that as soon as that genie was out of the bottle the whole world was dogging up both trad and sport 5.7's claiming to have "climbed" the route.
I'm not blind, and even though I still climb my way, I don't have a problem with people climbing their own way so long as they aren't a danger to access in some way or another. But I also can't simply dismiss off hand that we have access issues and crowds because of what must be something like 100 fold increase in the demographics (sports marketeers, data?) due to the commercialization of climbing.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
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I never questions your background...just your better-than-thou way of looking at climbing.
I don't care if someone claims an ascent of 5.7 or whatever route. Feck...if they are having fun...more power to them.
I also don't think climbing is worth dying over. It's a fecking sport. I much rather have Kevin Bein, Derek Hersey etc... romping around the crag, smiling and having fun.
Worried about crowds. Come hang out with me...I'll take you to a number of spots were you rarely see anyone. Let's do a route in the Black Canyon this spring.
Caught wrote: But hell, maybe I'm just as guilty. I like music from when I was in high school and college, and think most new stuff stinks. Damn whippersnappers!
There a lot of good music out there...you have to look for it. Beck, Wilco, Ryan Adams, Colin Hay, Nick Drake, and so on. Send me your address and I mail you one of son CD's.
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WBraun
climber
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Bob
What happened to Kevin Bein?
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Werner...He died on the Matterhorn in 1988. I miss him dearly. A wonderful person and friend.
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WBraun
climber
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Yes he was Bob, and so was Derek. Is Barbra still around?
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
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She is in upstate NY and has a young child.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Watch out. The surest sign of getting old and out of touch is being judgmental about the younger generation.
Our older generation judged us and our climbing too. Darn topos, and cheating cams! It sure was more bold to climb with soft pitons and hemp rope!
The world turns. The younger generation is going to have to inherit the world that we polluted and depleted faster than any generation in history. That'll make em old school again and should make us humble too.
PEace
Karl
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Jghedge wrote: If you've been climbing since the 70's and can look at the last 20 years with an unbiased eye, and have no ax to grind, you can clearly see that much more has been gained that was (admittedly) lost by the advent of sport climbing.
I been climbing since 1971 and seen a lot of stuff go down. What Tommy Caldwell did (nose $ freerider) is way beyond anything I can comprehend.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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I seem to notice that today a certain amount of confusion has crept into the FA game: For a variety of reasons, some (but certainly not all)climbers seem to believe that they have freed a route that they have hung on. If you rap bolt, hang dog, cheat like hell all over the place, it still is never a first FA until you've started at the bottom, climbed the thing without weighting a piece of protection (bolt, cam, or in situ pin), and clipped into the anchors at the top. Personally, I don't really care what dubious methods are employed (yes, even rapping in from above, oh god!), as long as the result is a real FA. How is someone else going to come along and repeat the thing if it never really was climbed in the first place? If this sort of confusion becomes general, we better all switch to painting in oils or composing poetry. At least, an artist is supposed to be sincere about what he'd doing.
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Free is a relative term - invisible top rope,hanging belays,chipped holds,preplaced gear,top down inspection,non continuous ascent - the list goes on. Now a solo is indisputable - or is it?
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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So is a "red point" if you don't lie about it, Dude!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Bob,
"I never questioned your background....
Your TR questions above sounded like it to me, hence the response. Never made it to BC, but I climbed at Crow Hill while in NH for a short while (way pre-Rumney) and developed such a high regard for Ed Webster I always wanted to get down there, but it never seemed to work out. I also love the idea of being done when you get to the top. Don't know what the plan is for next year yet, but I do have a brother in CS now and I'm overdue for a visit down that way. Would love to tag along with you up anything. Still trying to get down to the Valley for that matter.
Ah, NED, Adam's project - I think he was calling it "Nothing But Lunges" or something similar. He told me about it, but I've never been back to Eldo since. I forgot who scooped it out from under them. If you liked that I've got a circa '76 project for you. On the last day I was there a partner and I [briefly] attempted a project inside the cave on lead, but could only get so far without adding a top rope as well and couldn't convince anyone we weren't simply tripping hard. The line we tried goes up the back left of the cave (up thru the pigeon nest) and then attempts to cross the very top of the roof to join the route that comes out the right side of the cave. We burned quite a few laying on the floor working out the moves and were actually lamenting the lack of acid at the time.
It looks completely and insanely impossible until you stare at it a long, long time, but with a 180 degree walking rotation to the right at the top of the cave on underclings I still think it would go. We gave it a couple of goes and got a few moves out from the nest with some ugly results. We likely never would have gotten it even with more time and someone to man a top rope, but I suspect it would be a real interesting problem for someone of Sharma or Wilder's ilk. Our planned "Red Point", had we crossed the roof, would have been to do it with just the top rope with someone stopping traffic on the trail outside because you'd really come ripping out of the entrance if you came off at the top of the roof. We were thinking "Jonah's Surprise" for a name.
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kevin Fosburg
Sport climber
park city,ut
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I like this original post very much. Thanks Peter for your thoughtful reflections and perspective. One can see that you have retained the true spirit of climbing.
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