Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2010 - 12:41am PT
|
Jstan,
You got it right. Any little bit helps, awareness is heavier.
Ken
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
I'll second that.
|
|
john hansen
climber
|
|
I remember a few years back, I signed in for the face lift kind of early on the first day, back where they have their tents set up , past the post office..
The names above mine on the sign in sheet were J Stan and Ed Hartouni
Me and my brother only picked up two or three pounds of ciggerete butts and tape at the base of Middle Cathedral Rock, but it was cool having the people asking what we were doing.
Carried out an old tire from along the river, and a "Road Flooded" sign from the 97 flood.
Those were two pretty good "lunkers"... maybe fourty pounds total, .
Thanks Ken..for putting so much effort into the Face Lift
Just remember this is about the Face Lift.
|
|
MisterE
Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
|
|
Must EVERYTHING turn into an argument?
Show some restraint and respect for Ken's efforts, please.
Erik
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
No, Ken it was just sitting in the back of my car, unopened. I was parked at Donelly parking. There was a body recovery going on, lots of cops and rangers walking around. one of them walked by my open hatchback and said "you know that's illegal?" It went down hill from there. he showed me the rule in the book. said he could take me to jail right then, but gave me slack, as I probablly "didn't know". Just wrote me a ticket and took my can of beer.
Tim, that used to work for the Yosemite association and later pagan ( stooped posture, etc) saw the whole thing, we've talked of it in years since.
-So be careful drinking, or getting ready too, behind the Zion curtain. And if the worst happens, hope the cops are as cool as mine was.
|
|
Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
|
|
Damn garbage.
Its all garbage.
Waste (rubbish, trash, refuse, garbage, or junk) is unwanted or unusable materials. Litter is waste which has been disposed of improperly, particularly waste which has been carelessly disposed of in plain sight.
Damn litter.
Its all litter
|
|
Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2010 - 02:19am PT
|
Trollin' Trollin' across the open sea.
Ken
|
|
Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
|
|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hahahahahah
Keep up the good work Ken !
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
I spend as much time as I can in the park, so when the Facelift comes around I am ready to concentrate on just cleaning up... but lots of people come in from distance and they spend relatively few days there, part of the time cleaning up, but part of the time climbing or having other adventures... and I am known to go off with them and share the bits of knowledge I have to support the good times of their visit.
We clean up all the time, not just during the Facelift... but most of those times we're there to climb, cleanup happens out of respect and the immediacy of the mess. During the Facelift we're there to participate, but we do a little climbing too. The event which is the Facelift is important, and participation is important, for all the reasons stated in this thread... I'm not judgmental regarding the motives or the level of contribution. I remember being a poor student in NYCity and giving the entry fee donation of $0.25 to get into the Ansel Adams exhibition in the 70s, it's really all we could afford then... now I get to contribute more, but it was wonderful to have the experience... everyone does what they can do.
The Beatles ended an album once with the phrase: "The love you take is equal to the love you make" seems apt here, somehow... your choice, it's all good.
|
|
Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
|
|
I think it is a testament to Ken and the success of the facelift that what camping is available in the valley is already full. The event has grown exponentially with each year. He did mention early on that he was putting together a folder with names for camping and it was as usual a first come first serve basis. So a few people may not get to stay in Yellowpines etc they have done in the past. but it should not discourage from people taking part as noted there are other options. Bringing the climbing community together during the facelift time helps bring a greater awareness to what we all should be doing every time we visit a place such as Yosemite. It truly is a good mix of work and having a good time. We should all be mindful and thankful for all the people that put a lot of hard work into this.
As someone posted Remember its about the facelift. Thanks Ken for all that you and your team do for this event and yes lets hope it continues to spread to other areas that are in need of this kind of attention as well.
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
No doubt a few take advantage of the 'system' - that is, take advantage of the YCA, Ken, and their fellow climbers. This is my point. You throw a big party with free camping and beer and you can absolutly expect a certain % of aholes to appear and cause damage. It seems this has become more and more about party and less about work. At the same time, during this event, I know people have humped to the top of El Cap and scoured the place clean and it seems this kind of effort wouldn't happen w/o such an event. I have mixed feelings about this event.
IC is a different story. I don't see any litter there - only sh#t, over-run, pounded out and expanded camp sites, and eroded base areas.
I fail to see how throwing a large party to clean up litter (mostly their own, no doubt) while bringing in even more clueless outsiders to sh#t all over and trample the place is going to help anything.
The only positive things I've seen there in the past decade are the conservation lien, the toilet at Beef Basin and the parking in donnaly canyon and scarface - all to partially compensate for the extreme damage publishing a full color partier's guide to IC caused. These positive things also cost a lot of money and weren't executed by a bunch wknd warrior yuppies looking to cure cancer between lattes.
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
Shucks, JLP.. maybe you shouldn't focus on the jerks. 99 percent of the people who show up are great.. and work hard. If you only focus on the jerks, then of course you will never get anything done. It is great that you clean up on your own. I do too. I clean the swimming holes near my house every year. I live in Wawona. And I know many other people who clean up year around. But guess what.. there is still a whole lot of trash. How many tons did we pick up last year at facelift? So even though a few people mess up things for everyone, we are still doing a good service and accomplishing a lot and that is because most.. MOST...people do their share. Should we shut down facelift just because a few jerks make it difficult, or should we realize that it is still doing a great thing and people just aren't perfect? I vote for realizing that it is a great effort.
I don't begrudge for one second those who come and clean and climb. I think that it is great and I thank Ken for his efforts on behalf of the park and on the behalf of climbers, because the rangers have gotten to see the positive side of climbers, which they often forget since their job is to focus on the negatives.
So lighten up dude and you might enjoy the experience more. Ken is the guy who has to deal with the messes. If he needs to let off a bit of steam occasionally, then I think we should support him, instead of trashing the total effort. Facelift IS doing a service for both climbers and the park.
|
|
justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
|
|
I've been trying to keep out of the food-fight here, it but JLP- you are WAY off base. 99% of the climbers that show for this event do the work, aren't just free-loading and don't cause problems. You make a lot of assumptions that simply aren't true. Some of the trouble makers have been party- crashers and have nothing to do with Facelift and probably would cause trouble regardless of this event. I get one trip a year to Yosemite and this is it. So it takes a trash-pickup to get me out there. Big deal- I'm passionate about litter cleanup. It's insulting to be accused of making it worse. MASSIVE amounts of trash are hauled out every year that otherwise wouldn't be by the average Joe-shmo tree-hugging Yosemite-regulars. This is a good thing and Ken works really hard to make it happen.
Edit to add: The human capacity to focus on singular negative over a multitude of positives always astounds me.
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
JLP: A c#m-along, tube of astroglide, and 4x4 in granny gear might be sufficient to pull that well lodged stick out of your ass. Lighten up Francis, it's a volunteer event, not the chain gang.
|
|
Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2010 - 11:34pm PT
|
It is not perfect, but I have never seen anything that is. We do accomplish a lot. We gathered over 30 tons last year.
I understand that people that travel a distance want to enjoy the Park too. I think it is o.k. to do both as long as an effort to clean the area being enjoyed is done. There are a lot of people that do come up and work tirelessly during the whole event accomplishing an incredible amount. Surprisingly or maybe not, they actually seem to be the most rewarded and the happiest with their contribution.
The whole idea is to change our habits and perhaps others just a little bit in a better direction. I think it is a good thing for a lot of reasons. Maybe I am wrong.
Ken
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
|
|
Naw, You're Right, Ken.
Showing a place you love how much can't be wrong.
:-)
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
One or two bad apples does not spoil the bunch. Exactly, Gregg. There are about 3,000 volunteer days at the FaceLift, and probably more than 1,000 actual volunteers. Perhaps 50 or 100 have some connection with the SuperTopo crew. There are probably 400 or 500 "camp nights" - that is, person-site-nights - arranged by the YCA. It's no surprise if there are a few people who sneak in and cause problems. We just have to do what we can to minimize it. Having a site 'manager' at Yellow Pines last year seemd the right sort of thing to do.
Looking at it another way, I hope we don't all have to measure up to the work ethic of jstan, Ken, and a few others. Unstoppable!
|
|
silentone
Mountain climber
wisconsin
|
|
Ken,
I tried to send you an E'mail, wondering if you got it.
Just looking for a spot I don't care where I camp.
Going solo
Cheers to all see you there.
Thanks S.O.
|
|
Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2010 - 12:57pm PT
|
Silentone and others,
I have your emails about 200 or more of them. I am still waiting for site designations from NPS. I should get them today or tomorrow. Once I do, I will start assigning sites again.
Please be patient.
Thank you,
Ken
|
|
Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2010 - 02:43pm PT
|
Yosemite Facelift now has a Facebook page. Guess I will have to figure out how it works.
Ken
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!