9/11 belief, mythology, and the unknowable (OT)

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Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Jun 22, 2010 - 06:35pm PT

you'll find the engine bezels and so forth in the loose change DVDs--i assume you've seen them because they've been pretty popular. now you're telling me the camera lens distorted them--always something, no? but i don't think this particular item has been attacked. there's really too much of it for it all to be attacked. at a certain point anyone looking into it just gives in. but the little hot buttons are what keep beginners in line.

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Jun 22, 2010 - 06:38pm PT

i brought up air defense and that fellow went out to lunch. the pentagon was struck 45 minutes after the towers were hit. why wasn't the air over washington dc full of f-16s scrambled from andrews? think about it for a minute. maybe you need to think about it for a few years.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Jun 22, 2010 - 06:52pm PT

Karl,
That is an example of the strand of straw driven through a tree by a tornadoe; it happens all the time. It is also what happens when you shoot someone - a nice clean entry hole. Elementary physics.
I'm well aware that the fan blades weren't going to burn. Your point is

?

I'm not getting your point. If the Gov says the towers fell because of the amazing blaze set by the plane's jet fuel burning, how come it's cool enough to stand where the plane hit but before the towers went down?

If the fan blades don't burn, where are the pentagon fan blades?

Still, I think this "Demolition Stuff" is a dumb distraction that leads us away from getting to the bottom of the war games, money, and other bs that makes 9-11 stink

Peace

Karl

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Jun 22, 2010 - 07:06pm PT

you're kinda right about that, karl. the group i worked with got way into the demolition stuff and it easily became the sole focus.

the plane in the field in pennsylvania is another one--a tiny hole in the ground immediately closed off by security, debris spread across the landscape for 8 miles--this is an airliner crash? how dumb do they think we are? probably pretty close.

"coincidentally" there were more war games and emergency drills scheduled for 9/11 than took place on any prior day in history. the war games are the answer to the air defense question--most of those f-16s were sent to northern canada to pretend defending us from russia. after so much of it, you just give in and learn to live with the new world order. eat sh*t, serfs and slaves, take what we give you, don't expect it to make sense, we don't owe that to anyone.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Jun 22, 2010 - 07:13pm PT

Since I've never really spent much time on this reprise for me what
every crime must have: a motive. The Bush administration didn't need
anything this elaborate to justify invading Iraq. All they needed were
phantom WMD's. Bill Clinton didn't need this to launch cruise missiles
against Bin Laden. So what is the motive for all this? Wouldn't one of
the Twin Towers sufficed? And why would the nefarious types at the
Pentagon want to hit themselves? They're not that crazy!

Second, how many people would have been needed to pull this off and
keep it quiet with the emphasis on the latter? When is Deepthroat going to speak?

ps
So was the security camera that showed the plane hitting the Pentagon faked? I've seen quite a few staged crashes by NACA, the FAA, and the Air Force, and it sure looked real. But then I gues Steven Spielberg is prolly in on this especially since he's a Jew.

And how do you address all the drivers on the nearby highway who saw it?
Are they all part of the conspiracy too?

And if planes were good enough for the Twin Towers why wasn't one good 'nuff for the Pentagon?

TGT

Social climber

So Cal

Jun 22, 2010 - 07:17pm PT

Hey everything is a government conspiracy.

BHO has his own.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Obama-Administration-Knew-About-Deepwater-Horizon-35000-Feet-Well-Bore.html

Can't leave him out now!

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Jun 22, 2010 - 07:44pm PT

reilly, thanks for an open mind.

the pentagon hit, i think someone mentioned, was in an area vacated for construction, as far as possible from donald rumsfeld's office. just another coincidence of course.

the motive can be found in the PNAC document--project for a new american century--mostly neocon stuff, calling for "a new pearl harbor" to galvanize america so it can go out and take advantage of the great opportunity provided by the end of the cold war. basically to control the whole world. isn't that what we've been doing? david ray griffin's first book is "the new pearl harbor".

i think that motive is only a partial one. i think the web goes quite beyond the borders of america. it's only a myth that we're separate countries with sovereigty. if you don't know about the so-called bilderburg group, take a look at that. these people meet annually and secretively and they're the most powerful people in the world.

the pentagon released four frames after being nagged for two years. people already knew what the frames would show, the footage had already been leaked, and they didn't show much more than fuzzyness and explosion. you won't see a commercial jetliner. the frames were from a camera planted low behind an obstruction, aimed for a quick sideways shot. the pentagon has hundreds of security cameras. if you've got what you say you've got, you just show it to people. if you're lying, you dodge around, bluster, make excuses, temporize to change your story and manipulate the evidence, and just plain don't answer the phone.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Jun 22, 2010 - 08:15pm PT

Tony,
I do have an open mind and nobody mistrusts the government more than me
but this is just too much for those tards to pull off and keep secret;
THEY AIN'T THAT GOOD!

WBraun

climber

Jun 22, 2010 - 08:19pm PT

Reilly

You really are naive.

And there's no secret .....

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Jun 22, 2010 - 08:55pm PT

Take the Air Force send them on a mission to Canada

What, the whole Air Force? Hahahahaha! I can assure you we've never sent more than a couple of fighter squadrons (out of 130-odd) at any one time to Canada because that is about all the Canucks have. So that would have left about, oh, 100 fighter squadrons (deducting 30 to be generous for foreign deployment) to defend the Heartland.

Banquo

Trad climber

Morgan Hill, CA (Mo' Hill)

Jun 22, 2010 - 10:39pm PT

See Occam's Razor at Wikipedia

1) Bad Guys hijack planes
2) Bad guys fly planes into buildings
3) Buildings fall down

Americans are ignorant and self focused. Since 9/11 between 100,000 and several million people have died in Iraq and who knows how many in Afghanistan. About 3000 died in 9/11 - a lot of people but it was a small event in the big scheme of things. Don't you wonder what a million dead people looks like?

I studied structural engineering. I teach structural engineering at a good university. I used to work for a reseach company that blew up and studied blowing up buildings. I say KISS.

drinking red wine before dinner causes me to rant, sorry.

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Jun 22, 2010 - 11:43pm PT

occam's razor is no substitute for careful thinking. the razor comes when you cut through material you know well, not when you simplify and turn your head. i like to drink red wine too.

the planes that were scrambled to the pentagon were sent from airfields relatively remote to washington dc, not andrews afb, and they flew much slower than their top speeds, getting there well after the strike. as i say, the pentagon was hit 45 minutes after the first tower was hit. alerts happen pretty fast in the u.s. they say fighter jets are scrambled around 100 times a year to cover air traffic irregularities "just in case"--this happened regularly before and after 9/11. who was that golfer who died with his plane on autopilot? less than 15 minutes and he has an escort all the way to a crash in north dakota. yes, lots of incompetents in the military, but it's impossible to imagine letting the guard down on washington dc in this way. it's as imaginable as mighty buildings coming down at freefall speed without preset demolition. put that razor in your pipe.

but fellas, there's yet further confirmation of it all. dick cheney was holed up in his fuhrerbunker and right next to him was u.s. secretary of transportation norman mineta. mineta delivered this testimony to the 9/11 commission, but it was not published in their report. a young officer kept coming in saying "the plane is such-and-such minutes out" as it got closer, and finally he asked "do the orders still stand?" and mineta said cheney whipped his head around and said "of course the orders still stand". that motherf*@cker is good at whipping things around, like shotguns at octogenarians.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Jun 23, 2010 - 12:17am PT

The real and provable conspiracy was to invade Iraq under the pretext of WMDs when they knew it was BS. This killed and cost more than 9-11.

Still, nobody was caught, prosecuted nor impeached. Why thing 9-11 will get straightened out when the trillion dollar death machine of Iraq was swept under the table when PLENTY of people in high positions and low have provided evidence that the WMD thing was BS from the beginning

peace

karl

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Jun 23, 2010 - 12:56am PT

what 9/11 did was put the public in the right mood--then they stampeded. remember, they went to afghanistan first, supposedly trying to get osama out of a cave. can you imagine some yahoo being able to escape all our air power and helicopter capability hiding out in a cave? you guys go into the mountains. it's fantasy.

but once you go to war and get one american dead body coming home in a casket, the whole thing becomes sacred. it's even more sacred to the families who lose soldiers because they want them to have died for a good cause. suddenly a lot is riding on superficial patriotism.

jon krakauer has a book out now on the pat tillman case. it appears tillman was probably done away with because he had such a high profile and was about to go public against the war.

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Jun 23, 2010 - 10:33am PT

jolly roger doesn't want to hold the hot potato.

"is life so dear and peace so sweet to be purchased with the bonds of slavery?" said patrick henry.

i hate to tell you one thing, roger. we really aren't destroying the planet that badly. if you think so, you haven't spent enough time outdoors. nature has a built-in resilience to it and recovers quite quickly given half a chance. environmental devastation is part of the control myth, and it's an edifice of policy built over time by controlling cliques that stay in bed with each other. their policies produced this crap in the first place. people are cooperative--they recycle and want to buy electric cars. they've even learned to use condoms. the cliques don't know how to do anything well except maintain control, and they do that murderously. we'd have much better public policy and international relations if we had honest debate and genuine information.

reilly, i've come to think it's right there on the dollar bill: the all-seeing eye on top of the power of the pyramid. that isn't the eye of god up there. the power is the power of chain of command and the power of the paycheck. i know quite a bit about how the media work, having worked as a reporter and editor on small newspapers for 10 years. no matter how good the story is, if the publisher quashes it, that's the end of it. and i've seen even little stories quashed for no good reason except the boss's political comfort, not the public's right to know.

good point about ragheads in caves. do you go fishing, walleye?

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Jun 23, 2010 - 12:08pm PT

the pilots for 9/11 truth website will tell you otherwise. our commercial airliners had many built-in safeties against hijackers long before 9/11, in response to the petty hijackings which took place in the 60s. none of these safeties were even activitated. i understand it would have been as simple as the pilot switching over to put the plane under control by air traffic control. we're talking about four hijackings using utility knives. one out of four maybe? two out of four? but four out of four?

it was impossible to use cellphones then above 5,000 feet, and yet all the phone reports which fire the imagination supposedly came from cellphones--not airphones, but cellphones.

and you guys just don't get it, no scramblings, no intercepts. except maybe over pennsylvania, where the plane was brought down by a warthog, seen by many on the ground, because the situation may really have been getting out of control. the debris from whatever happened there was spread out over 8 miles of pennsylvania countryside. no one will argue with that. but the pubic was shown a meager smoking crater in the ground, not allowed to get close, and told the plane went in there.

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Jun 23, 2010 - 12:47pm PT

because it's the patriotic thing to do when your country is at war--you don't change horses in midstream.

except kerry won that election, just as gore won the one before. they worked felonies on the results in florida and ohio. both gore and kerry knew they should concede and not contest if they know what's good for them. that's how this 800 lb gorilla works.