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bwancy1
Trad climber
Here
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This is interesting to see so many up in arms about a route that 99% of the commenters here have never laid eyes on.
This retrobolting crap goes on every day at local crags (even - gasp- yosemite). I have watched many of you accepting and enabling this mentality with comments like "just leave the bolts..you'll only damage the rock", etc. Tacitly approving the addition of convenience belays, rap stations, added bolts, excessive cleaning, pruning, etc.
Why is this behavior ok in your own lives, but is so abhorrent on Compressor? Are your own modest routes and values less important?
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Thanks Erik, that was a great read. Very informative.
This retrobolting crap goes on every day at local crags (even - gasp- yosemite). I have watched many of you accepting and enabling this mentality over with comments like "just leave the bolts..you'll only damage the rock", etc. Tacitly approving the addition of convenience belays, rap stations, added bolts, excessive cleaning, pruning, etc.
My understanding is that these bolts were added for filming purposes, which makes the situation even worse in my mind. What kind of standard does this leave? Are you saying its ok for a film crew to place and remove 60 bolts every time they go out and film a big wall?
From Alpinist.
In 1971, a year after Maestri's ascent, videographer Leo Dickinson climbed and filmed on the Compressor Route. Dickinson left only a few pieces of clean protection at his highpoint (the headwall ice towers) and no additional fixed gear. While he and the rest of the team did not reach the summit, his reaction to the bolts on the Compressor Route compelled him to travel to Italy to interview Maestri. The result was a film entitled Cerro Torre—The Rape of a Mountain. In a recent email to Alpinist, he wrote: "In my view all bolts should be stripped from Cerro Torre and it declared a bolt free zone by the National Park. The rock of Cerro Torre and Fitzroy is eminently suitable for gear [that] can be removed.
So if Leo Dickinson can film on Cerro Torre in 1971 without placing bolts, why cant REDBULL?
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bwancy1
Trad climber
Here
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My understanding is that these bolts were added for filming purposes, which makes the situation even worse in my mind. What kind of standard does this leave? Are you saying its ok for a film crew to place and remove 60 bolts every time they go out and film a big wall?
No!
I am saying that it is not ok for a film crew to do it, and it is not ok for anyone else to do it either. A lot of folks here seem to be enraged about defiling Compressor, but have no problem with similar behavior on less famous routes...routes that they may actually have some experience with.
And just to make a comment on us climber's sense of entitlement: You state that the situation is "even worse" since it is associated with a film crew's actions. Why are photography enthusiast's impacts unacceptable, while climbers have the right to bolt anything we wish?
Ultimately I think maybe we are saying the same thing----enough with adding bolts to existing routes!
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tomtom
Social climber
Seattle, Wa
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How many bolts do folks like Caldwell or the Huber brothers add to routes they are trying to free?
Or leave roped draped for long periods of time?
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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F*#k Redbull!!!
You wont see me drinking that sh#t, especially after this travesty of filming shenanigans that went down.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Another great example of people outraged because they don't understand the real motivation behind minimizing bolts.
People who devote their lives to climbing, write about it, make a living from it, should understand why adding bolts is wrong. But most don't. They just jump on the bolts are evil bandwagon without really understanding the issue.
I'm going to rap off the anchor of one of the most important rock climbs in the world. Then I'll drill 10 bolts in the middle of no where that no one will ever see first hand, maybe glue a hood ornament on while I'm at it. I'll take a picture and post it here. Then people can get all righteous and outraged, but since no one else will never know where they are, they will remain there forever, like a splinter in some people's minds. A travesty! LOL!!
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Why are photography enthusiast's impacts unacceptable, while climbers have the right to bolt anything we wish?
First, climbers DONT have a right to do anything we wish, in my opinion.
Second, because those photos are being used for promotional purposes in order to sell more energy drinks. You might have a point if it were Ansel Adams up there....but its Red Bull. These photos are being used for marketing their beverage. lame.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Bwancy1, apparently you don't grasp the essential significance of Cerro Torre in the minds of many including those who will never go.
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bwancy1
Trad climber
Here
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First, climbers DONT have a right to do anything we wish, in my opinion.
Yes, that was my point.
Bwancy1, apparently you don't grasp the essential significance of Cerro Torre in the minds of many including those who will never go.
I get it. I just wish people would share that same passion and respect with the climbs in their (and my) lives. Act locally, you know?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Well, weren't the original bolts put in with a gas powered compressor?
Sounds like a good change of style at least : /
and props to bridwell, donini, garibrotti et al for giving that mountain a great history and giving us wanks a slew of very inspiring lines on those peaks.
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sweetcheeks
climber
Pacific Palisades, CA
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More abuse heaped on a line that should have yielded such a work of art.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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bwancy,
not all of us tacosheads are for retro bolting..
as one who has done hundreds of f.a's, ground up, trad, rap bolted etc i do not condone adding bolts to existing lines. it does not matter that 99%mof us have never been to cerro torre, simple fact is that was a lame ass move on the team and film crews part.
as one who was ticketed for using a power drill in the wilderness of el cap, i understand the implications of actions gone bad..
as one who has had a few of my "trad" routes retro bolted without my permission (cookie monster) i am not happy when someone else brings a climb DOWN to their level instead of rising up to the challenge.
seems like a film team on a big wall with lots of cracks could find a better way to secure their shot.
i live at the new river gorge where during the sport bolting heyday, many a trad line were retro bolted for "convenience" and now a lot of climbers want those trad lines back. i don't want to see massive chopping rear it's head, but would prefer that people think before they drill a line climbed on gear..
kurt
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Lambert's link to Rolo's Alpinist article is a must read for any alpinist or aspiring alpinist.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Your points are well taken Chief. I have to say, though, that there is a qualitative difference between TE and "crags" elsewhere. Torre Egger is the most beautiful mountain in the world- that said, all climbing areas deserve respect when it comes to desecration for commercial reasons.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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I cringe too with more beautiful or more difficult designations and all climbing areas, regardless of significance, deserve respect. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Chief, go to Patagonia and behold Cerro Torre, you'll see what I mean.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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From the Alpinist article:
In an email to Alpinist, Lama said that bad weather and "danger of avalanche" kept the team from removing the gear before departing. Lama plans to return next Austral summer to finish freeing the southeast ridge; the film team then plans to remove the bolts they placed.
They hadn't considered the probability or even the certainty that they'd be halted by bad weather and threat of avalanche?
What made them believe they'd possibly be able to clean the route given the brevity of Patagonia weather windows?
What makes them think it will be a picnic to remove the bolts this year?
Is this more "BP thinking"? With technology we can bypass any eventuality?
I've never been to Patagonia, may never get there. I can still recognize a desecration of the rock when I hear of it.
For commercial purposes.
RedBull and Lama should pay a team of experienced Patagonia climbers and guides to clean the mess, repair the rock as much as possible. They should not be allowed to go back to climb or film.
Fred Glover
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coondogger
Trad climber
NH
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Sounds like David is running on youth, incredible ability, and significant financial backing. Bark all you want but it looks like the preaching that falls on David's ears that won't understand deplorable behavior like this. Unfortunately it seems that his sponsors and David lack the concern for consequence and standard of care. It's wrong on many levels but we are preaching to the wrong people.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Not all crags are the same, sad but true. The way areas should be developed is often a product of where they are; maybe climbs should only be done if they can be put up ground up, onsight. If this is your sentiment, then yes, all crags should be treated the same. But quarries and mungy urban cliffs are far more deserving of convenience anchors than Tuolumne meadows.
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bmacd
climber
Relic Hominid
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chopping 60 of Llamas bolts on his routes at his home turf should settle the score
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