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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Apr 11, 2010 - 10:31pm PT
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oh for f*#k's sake...did you idiots listen to Olberman's guest??? He's obviously lying!!!
He has no legal basis to what he's saying. Olberman is fag too!!!!! I can't believe you idiots post this sh#t as evidence or proof.
Check you source! Idiots.
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Mason
Trad climber
Yay Area
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Apr 12, 2010 - 12:26am PT
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He's an ex-CIA agent. That makes him pretty reputable, Steve.
I just watched the Olberman video. I originally asked if everyone had heard of "treason" but now that I re-examine, the argument for the trial by jury and proof of guilt are pretty strong.
I watched Zeitgeist a few years back. I thought it was far fetched and pretty paranoid.
But now it feels like these things are unfolding before our eyes.
Our freedoms are slowly being stolen away by force and under the false pretense of "terrorism" which basically has a broad definition and can apply to anyone, anywhere, for any reason.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 12, 2010 - 12:36am PT
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Chief posts a picture of Tim McVeigh (who got a regular trial)
Remember that after the OK city bombings, many jumped to the conclusion that Muslims did it and wanted instant revenge.
How would that have reflected our judgement and wisdom?
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 12, 2010 - 02:26am PT
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Yeah, but Chief, if murder is murder, what about us killing tons of innocent people in countries that never attacked us. We take no accountability for our own terrorism and corruption but claim the sole right to be the world's assassins.
After all, Bush and company waged an illegal and aggressive war on Iraq with fake justifications. At least there's FAR more evidence of that than evidence against that cleric.
Would this country tolerate it if any other country managed to send a team of assassins to kill Bush here in the States? Or even abroad when he traveled?
No way
This policy is pure American exceptionalism. If we ever deserved that privilege, we don't anymore. You only get to wreck a fair number of other countries with staged coups, fake wars, and the installation of evil dictators before it's obvious your just as much problem as solution
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 12, 2010 - 12:07pm PT
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Coz, dude
This is not about terrorism, it's about the constitution and our efforts to ignore the highest law of the land, the principles that make us a free country.
You can go on and on about how you were threatened on 9-11. As a result, we invaded Iraq, which had NOTHING to do with 9-11 and didn't have wmds although the government falsely claimed to have evidence that they did.
If we were any other country in the world, our leaders would be hauled in front of the Hague, our trade would be sanctioned, and it would be a valid excuse for any other nation to use force to kick us out of Iraq or even invade us here... but we're too strong so we get away with it.
Which makes me suggest we clean up our act before our freedom falls from within.
No Muslim terrorist is going to take over this land. We will create our own loss of freedom by giving it up to policies based on irrational fear.
I'm am so far from fringe on this. Citizens have rights in this country. If you want to give that up to secret government whims with no due process, I suggest the real enemy of freedom in this country is YOU!
peace
Karl
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Apr 12, 2010 - 12:08pm PT
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Coz, you are linked to rap bolters. You will be executed. Prepare for the end.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Apr 12, 2010 - 12:19pm PT
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Pate, you have been linked to terrorist. Prepare to be assimilated.
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OR
Trad climber
VT
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Apr 12, 2010 - 01:50pm PT
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Keep it up Coz. You are spot on.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 12, 2010 - 01:52pm PT
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What coz said.
John
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 12, 2010 - 02:00pm PT
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i'm just happy to see you libs criticizing barry; of course, he scored points in my book with this decision...you guys/gals whine about civil trials but, until now, have largely ignored barry's rather enthusiastic use of drones to essentially execute bad guys before even charging them with a crime
oh well, even a stopped clock is correct twice a day
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 12, 2010 - 02:23pm PT
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It kills me to see how much even climbers can be ruled by fear.
It's like you're 15 feet runout and starting to feel weak so you pound a retro-bolt on a popular trade route.
That's what trashing the constitution is, compared to the threat of some preacher half-way across the world in some impoverished country. That boogyman is hardly worth throwing away habeas corpus for, or due process.
Have you really looked at this case JEleazarian? I can see how those ignorant of our political protections and the rule of law could cheer for assassinating citizens, but have you no shame advocating it after graduating law school?
Peace
Karl
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Apr 12, 2010 - 03:07pm PT
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You mean just like Hitler did Fatty? The old 2 step program, decide who your enemies are, step 2) off them all.
What separates us from those as#@&%es is the rule of law. Or at least it use to before this Obama Fatwa was announced. This guy may be a major MF as#@&%e, however, if he claims he is innocent, why should he not have either his passport revoked and a day in court?
Are his words that frightening? If he is guilty of a crime, then we should convict and then execute, and not the reverse like they did back in the 3rd Reich. If they can murder this guy based on a person or persons view and attitude, then we will all be exposed to that kind of bullsh#t.
ps, thanks Rox.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 12, 2010 - 03:07pm PT
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To take his citizenship away would require due process eh? Which is just what is missing here.
What's the process in taking citizenship away? How could it be misused against political opponents? Just askin'
Since the GOP is in the minority, it would be wise for you guys to fear how power could use it's clout to make sure you stay there. Glen Beck and Limbaugh say things all the time that could be seen as an inducement to domestic terrorism.
Peace
Karl
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 12, 2010 - 03:53pm PT
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You're confusing rules of military engagement with criminal procedure.
John
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 12, 2010 - 05:52pm PT
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Military engagement in a country where there is no declaration of war and where a citizen is specifically targeted for assassination? We have laws about all those things John.
So Obama can kill whomever he wants, wherever he wants, with no accountability or review, as long as he uses the military to do it?
I think Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck are bigger threats to our nations. Come on Barry, take em out!
peace
karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 12, 2010 - 07:09pm PT
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Fatty
How does what this Cleric has proved to be doing (not what the bluster says) differ so much from you advocating the bombing of Iran and the other preaching of violence that you do online?
An enemy combatant in a country where we have NO boots on the ground? Pretty tough to swallow dude
Peace
Karl
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 12, 2010 - 09:27pm PT
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Fattrad,
You might want to apply for the Iranian/American Climbers Exchange that the AAC is sponsoring, I might be able to expedite your application.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 13, 2010 - 03:45am PT
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Coz, you're not getting it.
The Strength and Beauty of America is in our rule of law, lack of despotism, fascism, and in our freedom. Giving the president power to assassinate citizens...ANY citizen...brings us closer to the kingdoms and dictatorships we abhor.
Radical islam has zero power to bring us down, but we can be brought down from within.
After 9-11, Bin Laden spelled out how did intended to bring the US down. How? By bankrupting us wasting our money chasing around guys on donkeys. We spent trillions on that.
Your questions have nothing to do with this issue. Let's say Tim McVeigh deserved to die, he still got a trial. America didn't deserve to lose 3000+ innocent people on 9-11, Iraq didn't deserve to have many times that many innocent people killed after that. Bush commited treason against this nation by launching us into an aggressive war. I think he deserves a trial, not assassination.
Once you give up your rights to the government can go after bad guys, they can go after you. I thought the conservative types were all over that worry but apparently fear comes first.
Peace
karl
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ahad aham
Trad climber
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Apr 13, 2010 - 08:58am PT
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one would infer from these posts that history began on september 11, 2001?
for those not paying attention, Bin Laden was first inspired to attack the United States by the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon in which towers and buildings in Beirut were destroyed in the siege of the capital. Some 17,500 Lebanese & Palestinians, MOSTLY CIVILIAN, killed. an invasion sposored by the us taxpayer who gifted the f16's & weaponry...
"While I was looking at these destroyed towers in Lebanon, it sparked in my mind that the tyrant should be punished with the same and that we should destroy towers in America, so that it tastes what we taste and would be deterred from killing our children and women,"
"God knows that it had not occurred to our mind to attack the towers, but after our patience ran out and we saw the injustice and inflexibility of the American-Israeli alliance toward our people in Palestine and Lebanon, this came to my mind,"
and again recalling images of Beirut, 1982;
‘I couldn’t forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere.’
we mess around with peoples lives and we create friends? who are the terrorists?
so we wack this guy; who next? the israeli's have been assassinating alleged opponents for years. what has it brought them? do we really want to go down that road?
so fattrad, are you a paid hasbara? are you hooked in with GIYUS megaphone desktop?
speaking of assassination;
FREE ANAT KAMM
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