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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Mar 28, 2010 - 12:06pm PT
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Hot Damn! That is soooooooo cool. Reading and seeing this thread was like the sun breaking through stormy skies. Thank you Guido for sharing your remarkable journey. You didn't just build a boat you created a dream. Wonderfully proud effort. You sir have my respect and admiration.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Mar 28, 2010 - 12:11pm PT
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Joe,
Of all the great writing there, I think this is my favorite bit.
The Shanachie was a story teller in ancient Ireland. He would travel from village to village and share his vast repertoire of tales to all who would listen. A single tale could last three days and in the meantime the village was obligated to keep him supplied with food and drink. Part fact, part fiction but nonetheless an important aspect of tradition and oral history. In essence a great bull shitter. Hey, I resemble that remark.
There it is folks!
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
Arkansas, I suppose
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Mar 28, 2010 - 12:50pm PT
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That is sick!
Thanks for the inspiration to get my little saily on the water
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Mar 28, 2010 - 01:12pm PT
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Guido, I forgot to ask, how the hell did you afford all those clamps?
I bought a few bar clamps for a laminated workbench project, 'bout broke the bank.
In addition to everything else......sheesh!
I guess stuff didn't cost so much back in the stone age.....
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Mar 28, 2010 - 01:12pm PT
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Awesome, but it looks like soooo much work.
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imStein
Trad climber
Triumph, Idaho
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Mar 28, 2010 - 01:15pm PT
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My hat is off, and will be for quite some time.
I love the boat project and appreciate the gift of sharing.
Thanks for posting, Guido.
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Yeti
Trad climber
Ketchum, Idaho
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Mar 28, 2010 - 01:36pm PT
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Joe: There's a book here. Nice job. See you in SC. Cheers.....
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Mar 28, 2010 - 01:41pm PT
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I am so inspired by this beautiful thread that I want to put up the perfect FA and call it The Shanachie Dream. Unfortunately I lost my mind a while back so my boat is up the creek. Anybody seen my paddle?
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Mar 28, 2010 - 01:49pm PT
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Nice!!!!!
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jstan
climber
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Mar 28, 2010 - 01:58pm PT
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Need to make this a trip report. So people can refer back to it in the years ahead.
It is a resource.
Edit:
Engineering question. Would it not allow a lighter keel if you had more of the weight at the tip in a streamlined bulb?
It is the leverage that you are going after.
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climbinginchico
Trad climber
Modesto, CA
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Mar 28, 2010 - 04:26pm PT
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Wow, this is just amazing. I've worked on boats, bottom jobs etc, but this is just spectacular. The commitment to this project boggles the mind. Gorgeous boat!
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quietpartner
Trad climber
Moantannah
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Mar 28, 2010 - 04:52pm PT
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AMAZING!!!!!
How the hell did you get the time and money to do this as a young buck?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 28, 2010 - 05:06pm PT
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Absolutely fantastic.
Where are the sailing TRs?
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2010 - 05:16pm PT
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Good question John
Remember this is a design for the infamous and rough Sydney Hobart race in 1972, which we modified for cruising. In later years the idea you presented was well adapted to race boats and now cruising boats. Not only bulbs but also winged keels, ala first Austraillian victory in the Americas Cup.
Problem with some of the race boats is they went to such a narrow attachment at the junction of hull and keel that some keels and boats were lost when this failed. Mike Plant on Duracell in the around the world race is one example. The yacht Charley (sic) on a passage from Hawaii to the west coast also lost its keel, but was able to spin a 180 and head back to Hawaii.
There was a funny saying from years ago that said if a race boat made it more than 100 ft past the finish line it was overbuilt.
Canted keels are now the rage and they can be controlled to move either port or starboard but you can imagine the huge loads associated with this.
I believe Shieds or one of the very early American yacht designers even presented the idea in the early 1900s?
Slakkey would be the one to enlighten all of us on this.
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jstan
climber
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Mar 28, 2010 - 05:25pm PT
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A winged keel. Ooof!
I should think you would have to sail by wire with such a rig. Wing would have to sense the load and have its angle set by servo.
Then you are in a control algorithm problem limited by response time.
No fun.
The control system would have to have a "damn friggen wind variation" dial that goes up way above 10!
Good to know that my ideas are only 100 years out of date.
Progress!
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Mimi
climber
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Mar 28, 2010 - 05:33pm PT
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Absolutely fantastic story, Guido! Magical and awe-inspiring! Thanks for taking the time to post this.
I was privileged to sail a few times back east on a very similar 38' boat constructed in '68 for the Newport to Bermuda race. Not quite the Sydney to Hobart, however. Wooden boats are the shizzle.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Mar 28, 2010 - 06:20pm PT
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Jstan and Guido, Now I'm built too low to the ground.
The stuff you're talking about keeps passing by over my head.....
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goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा
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Mar 28, 2010 - 07:49pm PT
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Amazing work Guido!
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jstan
climber
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Mar 28, 2010 - 08:06pm PT
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I'm just looking at the vectors. Easy to see how a boat can travel with the wind directly at the back. But you can tack back and forth with a wind not at your back if the sail is at say a 45º to the wind. The force on the sail has an x component and a y component and one of them is in the direction you want to go. Cool!
But in that situation the mast is subjected to a force that tends to heel the boat over. That's why you put a keel on it. Six tonnes of lead! Now looking at the boat as if it is coming right at you there is a sideways force pushing left say but if the boat is heeled over the heavy keel is on the right and it is trying to right the boat. Now the further to the right you put the mass the bigger leverage that weight has. That was my initial comment.
But suppose you make the angle of the keel so it's plane is no longer along the axis of the boat. Now it is acting like a wing and will feel an anti-heeling force proportional to the boat's forward velocity. So that angle will have to be changed as the boat's forward speed changes and since it is trying to offset the winds heeling force, it will also have to change when the wind changes. Gusts can kill you. And everything depends upon how fast things are changing.
The weight you put on the boat in the way of mechanisms to achieve this, of course, vitiate what you were trying to accomplish in the first place.
Pretty straight forward vector decompositions.
But what a mess.
But mein gott, what a beautiful thing Joe's crew built.
A work of art.
Edit:
There is also the story of Einstein not coming back from a day of sailing. He had gotten into the boat and had no idea of where he was or where he was going. Too busy thinking.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2010 - 09:46pm PT
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Jstan
If it will make you feel any better take note of the fact that Einstein was an avid sailor. But, he originally had a very difficult time trying to comprehend the fact that a sailboat could not sail directly into the wind. Yes indeed, it has to sail off the wind etc.......................Now for me that was an easier thing to perceive than his relativity concepts.
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