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Bargainhunter
Mountain climber
Central California
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Mar 19, 2010 - 02:19pm PT
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One of the things that struck me in his movie of the Half Dome and Moonlight Buttress solos was his comment that each of his moves is "100% solid."
Unfortunately, the rock is not 100% solid. Bomber holds break, rockfall occurs. Imagine getting hit in the eyes or hand by during a crucial sequence by rockfall and not being able to see or use one hand...Scary!
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Mar 19, 2010 - 02:24pm PT
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and SuperTopo is a place where expression of the joy or pain in ones heart resides...
nature, i concur.
i didn't mean that Ed should not share his caution. I only met that, though it makes sense within his heart, it may not make sense within alex.
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r2d2
Trad climber
East Bay
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Mar 19, 2010 - 02:25pm PT
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There are two kinds of climbers, BOLD climbers or OLD climbers, not both.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Mar 19, 2010 - 02:26pm PT
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larry,
they didn't have the dream....
as in this particular dream.
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gonzo chemist
climber
a crucible
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Mar 19, 2010 - 02:31pm PT
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It seems to me that if a warning and a plea is to be issued to A. Honnold and perhaps others who wish to cast off ropeless on such perilous adventures as free soloing big walls, then a warning and a plea needs to be issued to those who wish to head off into the big mountains.
How many perished last year in the mountains due to rockfall, avalanches, etc.? Heading out onto the vast flanks of snowy peaks can prove be a grim undertaking...
I don't wish to confuse the disciplines of free-soloing and mountaineering, but they both are admittedly dangerous; and a measure of consistency should be applied to any such appeal for rational fore-thought...
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Mar 19, 2010 - 02:31pm PT
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Great statement. Alex may or may not read it, but eloquently expressing his concern is thoughtful.
I can't begin to string words together like that but I would say to Alex:
* Make sure you are rock solid and confident in any climb your are going to free solo
* Do it for yourself, forget about everything else that motivates you and if you would do it without cameras or anyone else knowing about it, then still do it. Nothing wrong with cameras and publicity but you should do it because you want to challenge yourself, everyone else is just along for the ride.
* Think positive and confident going into it, but if things seem off, don't be resistant to backing off.
* Free soloing generates a lot of attention because it's badass. But don't let that detract from your other climbing accomplishments for yourself. Do what you want and let the people appreciate it how they want.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Mar 19, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
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There are two kinds of climbers, BOLD climbers or OLD climbers, not both.
That statement is illogical.
There are more than enough older climbers that are bold. Donini comes to mind. And with that there are more than enough young climbers not BOLD enough to sack up to what Jim has done in his life.... ever.
Essentially that logic states that if you are OLD you are not BOLD. it would then follow that if you are KNOTT OLD you are BOLD. And in the context our discussion here - Alex's BOLDness - how do you measure up?
That's that I thought.
Weegie.... got it!
Riley: I sent you a PM. Wanted to give you a call.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Mar 19, 2010 - 02:41pm PT
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A quick digression....
almost 60 posts in two hours and:
a) it's not a troll
b) it's 100% related to climbing
huh?
Edit: where's coz? ;-)
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 19, 2010 - 02:44pm PT
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Doesn't matter jack sh'it what anyone says here or anywhere, as it's all talk.
When you're the climber ready to go, ... all your own internal psych and spirit will dictate what you will ultimately do or not do, regardless of all the chatter from the outside world.
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jstan
climber
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Mar 19, 2010 - 02:54pm PT
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Life's greatest pleasure and reward is to take in a breath of good air, knowing nothing prevents another from following thereafter.
Nothing, least of all us, can keep another from thinking differently.
Our challenge is to go on undisturbed, whatever the outcome.
The expenditure - is not ours.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Mar 19, 2010 - 03:01pm PT
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When you're the climber ready to go, ... all your own internal psych and spirit will dictate what you will ultimately do or not do, regardless of all the chatter from the outside world.
Sometimes makes one wonder if the chatter drives the internal psych a bit.
Funny, all these solo ascents aren't just whispered around a campfire as part of climbing lore. They're on video.
"Dream of White Horses" indeed! Just fondled my copy yesterday, in fact.
Cheers and welcome, Ed!!
Why the image of that fart from your El Cap solo is stuck in my head, I just can't figure out. Visual imagery or some such. Yikes!
-Brian in SLC
ps: Hank: I even pulled a quote from that book for our 'proj trivia. Too funny.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 19, 2010 - 03:07pm PT
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Climbers are individualistic, anarchistic, loners who don't take direction very well. I've learned not to give out much advice unless requested.
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Mar 19, 2010 - 03:44pm PT
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Mr Edwin, what a pleasure. We climbed together at last years climb in at Sonora. A fine gentleman we have here folks.
Well written and well intentioned.
Does Alex ever post up here?
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Fletcher
Trad climber
The beckoning silence
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Mar 19, 2010 - 03:59pm PT
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I have been thinking the same things that Nature has (no need for Team Popcorn™... yet!). Here is a post that is eloquently written from what seems a very genuine and heartfelt place. I don't think Ed means to impose his will and "tell" Alex what is right, wrong or something in between. It feels more like a request or even a plea to just consider what he's seen on his experienced path. Alex can consider, ignore, launch sh#t-bombs, etc. and then go do whatever he finds best in his own heart and soul.
It's about climbing (this thread)!
It's provocative!
Not everyone agrees, but folks are thoughtfully and intelligently and (dare I say it?) respectfully presenting their own thoughts and feelings and considering those of others. What fun!
Who'da thunk?
I like what Werner, jstan and Donini have to say. You guys are making me think today! To be honest, the OT stuff, which I choose to read or not read of my own free will, also makes me think and be inspired on occasion. But I can get that elsewhere too. This kind of thread is pretty unique to this kind of place.
And "hobos dickcheese".... Hank, you are a treasure! I am so grateful for all of your voices.
Eric
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Mar 19, 2010 - 04:01pm PT
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Sometimes makes one wonder if the chatter drives the internal psych a bit.
Funny, all these solo ascents aren't just whispered around a campfire as part of climbing lore. They're on video.
This is part of the key question to me.
Even in Preuss's day, these guys didn't do this stuff inside a bubble.
People knew about it, talked about it, and watched when they could.
The idea that outside forces, attitudes, and input don't add to the soloists internal psych, drive and motivation....well...
I would bet he's got a little posse of friends/submen telling him "You can do it man!"
He's a nice mellow guy. But he allowed himself to be filmed on H.D.
Fame, sponsors, money, these are strong drugs that even Alex isn't immune to.
Even when I did the first solo of relatively minor Karate crack, I was driven by things beyond my own little purist zen state. I KNEW that people would hear about it.
How hard is the Great Roof? Changing Corners?
How many 5.12, 13, 14 pitches are there?
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noal elkins
climber
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Mar 19, 2010 - 04:20pm PT
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At the recent Royal Robbins slideshow in San Carlos an audience member asked Royal what he foresaw in the future of climbing. His answer was ropeless ascents of El Capitan.
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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Mar 19, 2010 - 04:21pm PT
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I agree with Royal.......this is inevitable.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Mar 19, 2010 - 04:28pm PT
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Drummond is an old climbing friend of mine from 35 years back. Although I have always enjoyed his wittiness and enjoyable command of english, in this particular case---his “Climb and Punishment” thread--- I actually do not enjoy it and find it sensationalistic and frankly crude and kooky. Repugnant even and melodramatic. I do understand others have different opinions of course on this.
It would be better if the thread were instead “A Letter to a Young Climber”--- you know that tradition: “Letter to a Young Poet” Rilke etc. and did not take to gnawing on Alex specifically. This way, Ed could go on in abstract and still cover his general subject, a corollary to the big question, can climbing justify its deaths. In fact it really is not any of our business and certainly not Ed’s, to be talking to Alex in this manner in a public forum. Alex above all of us certainly has the clearest picture what the hell he has been up to privately and publically and has shown himself to be extraordinary intelligent as well; he does not need to experience our worry-face baggage.
And it would have been better too, if we had instead just done an Ed Drummond appreciation thread rather than undergo this very strange shocking publicly-born depiction and prayer to someone of whom he hardly has a grasp. I am sure that many would like to converse with Ed here and indeed he can be a gas and he has been around! But for me it is weird---insulting even---and again, none of our damn business what Alex is planning in real detail.
Obviously soloing one of the routes on El Cap is on the minds of many young climbers as it could be the next step taken in climbing. Most everyone knows this is part of our view these days. But it really is not too much different from many solos that have gone before in the last 40 years, just a little bit harder in most cases, this is all. Once you are up more than say 75 feet, everything is an El Cap.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Mar 19, 2010 - 04:29pm PT
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When you're the climber ready to go, ... all your own internal psych and spirit will dictate what you will ultimately do or not do, regardless of all the chatter from the outside world.
Yep. No one ever took someone else's advice. We're lucky to be alive having never learned from the past or listened to those more wise than us.
It's BS. We all give advice daily and listen to or ignore advice just as often. Every action we take is a product of our environment and genetics. We process the chatter and when it's time to climb, it has a huge affect on our actions. We just want to be arrogant and deny that anyone else's opinions mattered.
And if this guy wants to publicly ask someone else to not take an extreme risk, that is his right. Only time will tell if his concern is justified but he cannot see the future to know. He must act on his own conscience and do what he thinks is right. Condemning him for being concerned about someone else's life? Dumb-asses must live here.
Dave
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Mar 19, 2010 - 04:31pm PT
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Lot's of respect for Ed, and he is entirely entitled to his opinion. But..
1. Doubtful that Alex would attempt the Nose as a solo. Few people have done it period and there are some very insecure sections. Freerider would be the likely target.
2. I'd argue that given Alex's existing accomplishments, El Cap via Freerider wouldn't be any bigger a step then Croft doing Astroman. Maybe less in some ways.
3. If it is not Alex, it will be someone else sooner or later. Never in history have people stopped pushing boundaries because of what some in earlier generations have thought.
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