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AKDOG
Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
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Mar 16, 2010 - 07:16pm PT
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The aerial hunting of wolfs in Alaska has nothing to do with public safety, it is to decrease competition and help hunters take more moose and caribou. Competition reduction. You can get a permit allowing aerial or same day airborne methods to remove wolves in designated areas of Alaska.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 16, 2010 - 07:33pm PT
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Thanks, from my quick read of the links it seems like they've got a well coordinated plan to selectively reduce numbers of wolves when that is advisable to increase prey population in areas where humans have need of the prey.
Seems like government officials are doing their jobs for a change!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 16, 2010 - 07:42pm PT
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While I'd rather discuss politics, I'll chime in.
The teacher made an innocent mistake. She was obviously used to trail-running in the lower 48, and maybe not fully conscious of the dangers of doing that where she was. Brown bears can be nasty too, despite the wolves. It ain't like a black bear.
As for killing the wolves who were responsible, I'm divided. Ain't so much a taste for human food as it is a learned knowledge by the wolves that INDIVIDUAL humans are easy prey, and an easy meal. I cannot blame the wolves. But since they've learned this behavior, it's prolly best to send them to their maker.
Air-hunting is f*#ked up. Air 'wildlife population management' makes sense. It's cheap and efficient. Still a bit messed up, killing innocent wolves. Especially if the only reason is to have better Elk/Moose hunts.
We have to be careful how we 'interfere' with nature and wildlife management. Sometimes we have to intervene to protect a species from ourselves, other times we need to protect them from ourselves.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 16, 2010 - 07:47pm PT
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Based on reliable evidence, there are few - very, very few - documented cases of wolves worldwide attacking let alone killing a human. The very few authenticated cases that exist are often unclear as to what happened, e.g. whether it was wolves, wild dogs or some other predator, whether the animal(s) had rabies or some other disease, and whether the animal(s) killed the person, or were simply seen in the area of a human who may have died for other reasons. Given this, I hope that they investigate thoroughly, e.g. an autopsy and thorough examination of the scene to determine cause of death and surrounding circumstances, DNA analysis of the human and the suspect wolves to confirm (or not) a connection, determining if they were wolves, wolf-dogs, or wild dogs, and so on. Also, the general circumstances - e.g. if the animals were habituated to humans for whatever reason.
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MisterE
Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
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Mar 16, 2010 - 09:49pm PT
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As a former Alaskan resident, there is one other consideration.
Women can get attacked during their menstrual cycle. Blood is blood, and wolves, bears etc have a keen sense of smell.
I have known women that would not road-run alone during their cycle.
Condolences to family and friends. A lost teacher up there is a big deal.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Mar 16, 2010 - 10:16pm PT
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One question I have is why the Natives to that region did not look after her better since it was clear that she was a naive newcomer. Did they warn her and she ignored them? Did they just assume everyone knew the land? Did they advise her to carry a weapon (anything from pepper spray to a gun and she refused?
There's a lot of things about this story that need more investigation.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 16, 2010 - 10:24pm PT
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One question I have is why the Natives to that region did not look after her better since it was clear that she was a naive newcomer.
Disdain for 'outsiders'??? Ethnically closed societies can be the most tribal and 'racist' or bigoted as we know it. They didn't care. And I don't really blame them in some regards, even if she was doing good for their area.
Sounds insensitive, but I thinks it's pretty accurate.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 16, 2010 - 10:44pm PT
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I don't know, I'm getting a very confused picture from the above posts.
Some think that wolf attacks are so rare that there must be an in depth investigation to this including DNA profiling and presumably whatever other CSI tactics can be sued; others think they're so common that women can't run on the roads at "that time of the month."
Plus, we don't know that the natives did not try to warn her--maybe they did and she didn't heed their warnings for whatever reason (maybe a little "oh those natives are so quaint and cute being afraid of wolves--us enlightened modern folks know they're completely harmless and the victim of old-fashioned prejudice).
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MisterE
Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
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Mar 16, 2010 - 10:51pm PT
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Jesus, Blue. Have you ever even been up there, much less lived large portions of your life in Alaska? Your reactive, sensitive-to-the-natives-vicariously attitude is fukking tiresome.
Especially put side-to-side with the xenophobic attitude you commonly share.
I will wait for you to go look it up.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Mar 17, 2010 - 02:55am PT
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Things could get worse up there...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 17, 2010 - 10:24am PT
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Wolfs probobly learn fast. Hunting them from planes does nothing to teach them to be afraid of people. Its just death coming down out of the sky. if they got shot by a few people on the ground they would regain their fear of people.
Wearing ear buds out in public is pretty darn stupid. It totally wipes out your awareness of your surroundings. In the city it greatly increases your chances of getting hit by a vehicle or being attacked by humans. In the country it blocks out all the sounds of nature that if you take the time to listen to them are the heart beat of the forest. Every noise you hear or don't hear in the woods tells its own storys. If you are in carnivour country those ear buds help make you prey by killing your awareness. If nothing else they rob you of a huge part of the outdoor experience.
I see kids walk down the streets with ear buds in stareing at their phones completly oblivious to the fast moveing chevy comming up on them or the creep that might snatch them. Skiers and riders have no clue of their surroundings. One of the Mare brothers hit a grooming machine BINTD of the Walkman and got messed up real bad. Lots of collisions where they can't hear the skier or rider that is right next to them but just behind their field of view,
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jstan
climber
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Mar 17, 2010 - 03:01pm PT
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"One question I have is why the Natives to that region did not look after her better since it was clear that she was a naive newcomer.
Disdain for 'outsiders'??? Ethnically closed societies can be the most tribal and 'racist' or bigoted as we know it. They didn't care. And I don't really blame them in some regards, even if she was doing good for their area.
Sounds insensitive, but I thinks it's pretty accurate."
Blue, would you care to share with us the research you have done on Arctic cultures and upon which you base your very sweeping statement?
If you have no basis for what you have said, your comments do not rise to the level of mere insensitivity.
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AKDOG
Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
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Mar 17, 2010 - 03:43pm PT
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I am sure the “Natives” warned her if they thought it was a problem. They are just as friendly as any small isolated town. The truth is most up here feel it is safer to travel in the winter because the bears are asleep and everything is frozen making travel easier. Biggest fear is running into a moose, avalanches or frostbite. Chignik is an area of three small towns/villages roughly about 300 total residents, only way in or out is by airplane or boat. Most residents make their living from commercial fishing. Most of the natives look “white” to me with a mixture of Russian, Norwegian (northern European), Aleut ancestry. This is not the Arctic.
IMO this was a freak accident and may have more to do with the teacher’s small stature.
Around where I live, wolves have taken a few dogs, but if they start attacking people, they will be killed, this is Palin country; half the yahoos up here walk around armed to a go grocery shopping.
But sh#t happens and you cannot kill everything that is a threat, it is the price to pay for not having to live in an urban ghetto.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Mar 17, 2010 - 04:29pm PT
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^^^Really! Having lived and worked all over
The Great State I've always found its true
citizens to be the most friendly and honest people
imaginable. I'm pretty sure they are the definition
of hospitality. 'course you haven't really made
it with them until you've shared some seal meat and
shtinkhead.
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willie!!!!!
Trad climber
99827
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Mar 17, 2010 - 04:48pm PT
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Such a fine line between talking out of one and being one.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 17, 2010 - 05:09pm PT
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What tribes have shown disdain for you Blue? Where u been?
You really are a good guy and a smart guy but someone sure f*#ked with you head.
riley
China (Hong Kong), Egypt, some parts of the Philippines, some parts of Thailand, even some parts of Italy. Some aren't necessarily 'tribal', but it's the same phenomenon. If you are recognized to be non-local or non-native, you are treated differently.
As you spend more time around the people/culture, you blend in more. You stick out a lot less. You learn the environment.
Of course it also also the opposite effect. As more remote cultures are exposed to other cultures, the are less apt to distinguish people people as different or treat them differently.
(I've visited and lived in other places, but those stuck out)
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 17, 2010 - 05:14pm PT
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I know I am forgetting a hundred places I have been, but really the only people I can think of in the world who have issues with racism and outsiders are your very own Christian fundamentalist tribe.
Now that strikes me as a little over the top.
The history and the present state of the world can largely be described as groups of people in conflict with other groups.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Mar 17, 2010 - 05:24pm PT
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As you spend more time around the people/culture, you blend in more. You stick out a lot less. You learn the environment.
not really. you been around here and you still stick out like a thumb that used to be stuck in your a$$....
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 18, 2010 - 01:07pm PT
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Seems like the Alaska authorities are doing a good investigation and not jumping to any conclusions. I wonder about the bias reflected in the article. While it may be true that this is only the second fatal wolf attack in NA in more than a century, that statistic seems misleading considering the last attack was in in 2005. You've got to look at the trends.
Also, as RJ noted, focusing on fatalities but ignoring grievous injuries seems biased.
Wolves are impressive creatures but maybe they're not compatible with modern lifestyles (jogging with earbuds and the like) and so maybe they should be restricted to select reservations where people aren't normally allowed to enter.
From
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/18/wolves.kill.woman/index.html?hpt=T2
Tenino, Washington (CNN) -- Authorities in Alaska are examining two wolves to see if they are the animals that killed a jogger last week, said a wildlife biologist investigating the attack.
The two gray wolves were tracked down Monday and shot to death from a helicopter near the town of Chignik Lake, Alaska, said wildlife biologist Lem Butler.
The wolves are suspected of killing special-education teacher Candice Berner last week. Berner, 32, was attacked while jogging near the town, authorities said.
"We had a systematic search," he said. "These were the only two wolves we could find tracks for."
The wolves appeared to be the same ones that left tracks at the scene of the attack, and they matched witnesses' descriptions of the animals seen near Berner's body, Butler said.
Officials will conduct tests on the wolves' carcasses to determine whether they killed Berner, Butler said.
The carcasses will also be examined to see whether the animals were rabid or starving, or suffering from some condition that led them to attack a human, he said.
The rare wolf attack shook Chignik Lake, population 105.
"We see wolves a lot," said Johnny Lind, president of the Village Council. "But we've never had anything like this happen."
The killing is thought to be only the second fatal wolf attack in North America in more a century. In 2005, a wolf pack killed a geology student in Saskatchewan, Canada.
Wolves typically avoid human contact and do not threaten people, said John Blankenship, executive director of Wolf Haven.
"They are not human predators. It's healthy to have awareness of them, for sure. But to be afraid of them is too strong an emotion," he said.
Wolf Haven in Tenino educates the public about wolves and serves as a haven for about 50 rescued wolves, many of them once kept as pets.
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