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Norton
Social climber
the Middle Class
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:01pm PT
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John, nope.
What the bill WILL DO is FORCE the private insurers to take you on even if
you have a pre existing condition, something they will NOT do now.
But, one still cannot "game" this by not having insurance, and then get
sick and go sign up and expect to be covered right away, nope.
The "catch" is they can charge you whatever they want to, a LOT higher
monthly premiums than if you did not have a pre existing condition.
At present, and without the bill being passed, the ONLY way to get
quality coverage(WITH pre existing conditions covered) at a very reasonable charge ($100/month now!) is when
you hit age 65 and can get on government healthcare, MEDICARE.
But the Republicans consider Medicare SOCIALISM and and ANY expansion
of it to younger Americans an "expansion" of "big government" and should
be fought and opposed with all their money and might.
Again, to them, healthcare is a privilege, and not a "right" as it is
seen is EVERY other modern, industrialized country on earth.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:04pm PT
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I think there is some truth to what you say Apogee, concerning the belief that if it isn't accomplished this year, then it wont be accomplished during Ombama's administration. This is a sad fact of how things go in politics today. What I would like to see Americans do is have enough will that just because healthcare reform fails this year, then lets gather together, write our congressmen, and start again with next years session.
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apogee
climber
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:04pm PT
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"Again, to them, healthcare is a privilege, and not a "right" as it is
seen is EVERY other modern, industrialized country on earth.
"Why are those Republicans so wrong on everything"?
Well, there's one of the best answers to that question you could ask for.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:07pm PT
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The "catch" is they can charge you whatever they want to, a LOT higher
monthly premiums than if you did not have a pre existing condition.
So for people like me, this bill is worthless, but for people like the examples you gave, who have undiagnosed diseases from childhood, they can not loose their coverage. I thought that we already did that, but my guess is that is a false belief based on what you have said.
So some good, but not nearly enough. Yeesh.
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PRRose
climber
Boulder
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:15pm PT
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"So what you're looking for is the ability to have no insurance, walk into the docs and get diagnosed with brain cancer and then get insurance for $100 a month. Just great for everyone else.
The evil one"
You've just put forth the best argument for a single payer system--no one games the system and everyone gets treated.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:16pm PT
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Not a well understood part of the plan is the subsidy available to people at the low end of the spectrum, financially. The low end is currently pegged at $88,000....which is NOT poverty. This ends up making the insurance affordable for the vast majority, even with increased rates.
If you have a lot of pre-existing problems, and an inflated rate, and you make $90,000 or more a year, you can afford to pay for the insurance almost assuredly.
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Norton
Social climber
the Middle Class
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:17pm PT
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Well, the other "good" news in the bill is that the Democrats are fighting
for in the bill is to expand Medicare by lowering the age from 65 to 55.
John, IF this gets included in the bill it sounds like YOU would benefit!
In addition, the bill DOES expand the "other" government healthcare program,
Medicaid, not Medicare, to an additional 30 million Americans.
Medicaid presently is limited to poor children, at two times the present
"poverty" level. The bill would increase those eligible by changing the
income level to say, about four time the poverty level.
This would GREATLY help children, not only the poor, but the "near" poor.
There is at present NOT ONE Republican in the House or Senate who will
vote yes for the bill.
They can't stand the thought of a half white President with a Muslim sounding
name doing a signing ceremony in the Rose Garden of the WHITE House.
Just the thought of all that Black Sex going on right now drives them wild (with envy).
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:23pm PT
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Hey Ken, Do you know what the max cost for those making under 88 thou will be? I haven't heard of this. What do you mean by affordable. Affordable is different for someone making 10 dollars an hour, versus someone making 40 dollars an hour. Based on a 2000 hour work year, 40 dollars an hour is 80 grand a year.
Do you mean that I could go to blue shield and they would have to provide me with an affordable program that couldn't exclude any pre existing conditions?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:24pm PT
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Eventually Norton. I am still only 51. haha.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:27pm PT
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I say we let Canada invade us. Then we could have health care and lower cost of military. The United States of Canada. Then all the terrorist would stop hating us and we wouldn't be a target.
Come on Canadians. You always wanted to own disneyland. Admit it. Come and get it.
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apogee
climber
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:30pm PT
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"So what you're looking for is the ability to have no insurance, walk into the docs and get diagnosed with brain cancer and then get insurance for $100 a month. Just great for everyone else."
No, fattrad, but this is a perfect example of the argument strategy you and the Repugs are using in this process: contort the issue into something that it's not, and twist the words of those who might support the effort in any manner.
Like you have stated repeatedly, I am also in favor of a reasonable level of healthcare and coverage for virtually all, but those who desire the highest quality levels of care will need to pay for it. The difference is that I actually believe this, whereas you simply say it for political purposes with the underlying goal of Status Quo.
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Norton
Social climber
the Middle Class
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:36pm PT
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Republican Senator Tom Coburn:
Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okl.) acknowledged the obvious on Friday, stating that the goal of his parliamentary shenanigans and the Republican Party as a whole is to "kill" the Senate's health care bill.
hp
And that about says it all.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:42pm PT
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My question was just that. A question.
So what I understand now is that if this bill passes as is, everyone will be required to buy insurance or pay a fine. The insurers wil be required to take everyone regardless of pre existing conditions but will be able to charge as much as they see fit? How does this help those with pre existing conditions if they can effectively be denied coverage by being priced out of the market?
This kind of sounds like a dream come true for the insurers.
For the record my experience with health insurance is like this: I have carried a high deductible affordable policy all of my adult life. It means I pay out of pocket for Doctor and ER visits etc until it hits the deductible (which never happens.) But three years ago when I found out I needed very very expensive diagnosis and treatment for a defect in my brain (ok, no jokes there, right...) it kept us out of bankruptcy. So I do think that having catastrophic coverage is important and something everyone should have access to. This bill obviously does not get us there.
I would think that direct steps to control costs would be the place to start. Right now when you go to see a specialist as much as half of his billing goes to malpractice insurers even though we know that actual malpractice settlements are not a big factor in medical costs.
"They can't stand the thought of a half white President with a Muslim sounding name doing a signing ceremony in the Rose Garden of the WHITE House."
Norton I don't agree or disagree with everything you are arguing, but that sh*t is uncalled for.
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Norton
Social climber
the Middle Class
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:47pm PT
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You are right, and I apologize to everyone. I will keep those thoughts private.
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apogee
climber
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Dec 18, 2009 - 04:05pm PT
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""They can't stand the thought of a half white President with a Muslim sounding name doing a signing ceremony in the Rose Garden of the WHITE House."
I dunno, Norton, I think there are, sadly and frighteningly, a large number of people out there who feel quite similarly. The 'black sex' comment was pretty harsh, though.
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PRRose
climber
Boulder
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Dec 18, 2009 - 04:35pm PT
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It appears to me that the bill does not allow insurers to charge more for pre-existing conditions.
Section 2701 provides for community rating, with the only factors that may be taken into account in setting premiums being the age of the insured, the geographical area, whether the policy is for individual or family coverage, and tobacco use. It specifically states that only those factors can be used to set rates.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Peenemunde
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 18, 2009 - 04:53pm PT
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rotten johnny
Social climber
mammoth lakes, ca
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Dec 18, 2009 - 06:15pm PT
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fattrad.....i'm not entitled to a M-1 abrahms and the f*#king government keeps shoving them down my throat......quit playing GOD even though you are in the eyes of us pinkos....rotten johnny....
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
CA
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Dec 18, 2009 - 06:24pm PT
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there is no way to measure how many docs will flat quit if healthcare is federalized.... but many right now will not treat, or treat for free, patients who only have medicare simply because they do not have the staff to deal with the cumbersome compliance of medicare. In rural areas, where there are 1 doc shops that do not handle medicare, they will simply close.
longer drives and less access. and,
for those docs that are left... is there anyone who has filled out any federally regulated document that thinks the remaining docs will have less time for paperwork, and more time for patients? no.
Federalized healthcare, in any form, will mean less access to a doctor, not more.
Many over 55 wil just plain quit, the remaining will have less time with patients, and the field will not be as attractive.
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rotten johnny
Social climber
mammoth lakes, ca
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Dec 18, 2009 - 06:39pm PT
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and furthermore , mcconnel is from that forward thinking , progressive state of , KENTUCKY......good point bannister...everyone will die and doctors will take up housepainting.....as it is now , the doctors have to hire extra help to haggle with the insurance companies to get payed which adds to the cost of healthcare..... not sure what the answer is but like doc ken said the ship is sinking.....
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