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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 12, 2009 - 12:17pm PT
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Chris Knuth soloed "Uncertanty Principle".
Eric Knuth TRed "Move Over Junior" which is unrepeated by anyone that I'm aware of.
Both Chris and Eric were really strong climbers in the 90s. I've heard Chris might be getting back into climbing, solid 5.13 - 5.14 climber, and Eric never left climbing but has gotten into road bike racing.
Both are great guys. Eric every once in while comes out to San Diego and visits and some of his friends we all get together and go climbing up at Woodson.
Yo, EK
What is up with you!!??
Knuth was in the house. :-))
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EK
climber
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Dec 12, 2009 - 07:20pm PT
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Hi Glenn--I wondered whether anyone had repeated "Move Over Junior"--thought maybe you had done so! : )
I always enjoy reading the Woodson discussions, such a great place to climb. Lots of good memories from climbing there in the mid to late 80s and early 90s. Nothing like it here in Wisconsin!
Eric
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Dec 12, 2009 - 08:52pm PT
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You guys have me psyched on Woodson. I've never climbed there, but I've scoured the Eastside for crack bouldering, there is some, but you guys seems to have the best.
In my opinion, which is not worth much, I'd say keep it a TR. Solo is solo, and TR is tr, bolts are all a slippery slope.
if you need 'em you need 'em. This one seems fine as is.
I've been thinking about an area to develop here, the one me and Batrock have been talking about. I'm thinking TR, lead and solo area. Why bolt.
I went to that stanage place in the UK, no bolts. It was sweet.
Edit, hopefully I'll check the place out this winter.
Also stanage was sweet because you had the choice of a hard top rope, or a scary lead. The challenge is up to you, not the guy who decides to bolt. Or solo. It's pretty clean way to do things
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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Dec 12, 2009 - 09:22pm PT
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^^^
its a great place for full-burn day, bring enough
water, and climb till sunset :-)
///.
did my TR ascent of this thing in the late 80's,
pocket russian belay -
its easy to see why the subject of lead/converting UP
comes up, you step out there, and its this stellar mini-
route, pretty much in your face, great location.
Beck and I tried to TR, and got no where BITD, we found
a single bolt at the boulder apex, that had been backed
up (I guess) with the bolt back a ways?
anyway, a second bolt we drilled, then went back many years
later and cleaned up the 1/4" mank, and powered in two spec
"big bolts" w/ metolius hangers.
looks like it's destined to remain a fine TR.
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gonzo chemist
climber
the Twilight Zone of someone else's intentions
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Dec 12, 2009 - 09:40pm PT
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Holy crap. I tried 'Move Over Junior' over Thanksgiving weekend. that thing is HARD. I had no idea what the climb was, all i saw was sweet knob climbing. Talk about demoralizing. I just couldn't hold onto those damn little knobs up high! I was thinking, 'with all these little knobs, it can't be THAT hard.' Checked the guidebook afterward and realized I sandbagged myself! But what an amazing climb! Major respect to EK for sending that...
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Dec 12, 2009 - 09:59pm PT
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where is "move over junior?" what boulder is it on??
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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Dec 12, 2009 - 10:02pm PT
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^^^
thanks for asking
thing sounds wicked.
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EK
climber
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Dec 13, 2009 - 12:04am PT
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Move Over Junior is on Seminar Wall, goes up the middle. Starts with the regular Seminar Wall start, but instead of moving to the left at the knobs, you continue up the middle of the wall.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
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Dec 13, 2009 - 12:23am PT
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Definitely leave it unbolted. The static line idea is sheer brilliance. I was going to suggest just waiting to take in the TR slack every 10 feet or so.
There is an ocean of rock still waiting to be FA'd out there; go find something you can call your own and bolt it at will.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 13, 2009 - 04:28pm PT
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Hi Glenn--I wondered whether anyone had repeated "Move Over Junior"--thought maybe you had done so! : )
I always enjoy reading the Woodson discussions, such a great place to climb. Lots of good memories from climbing there in the mid to late 80s and early 90s. Nothing like it here in Wisconsin!
Eric
Yo Eric,
Not even close. All I can do is stare at it from the bottom and wish I could do it.
Although I do have a really nice image of Lynn Hill from below in the same area on Seminar Wall, she went way right and tried coming up the middle (wasn't gonna happen), when I worked at A16 for a spell. She went bouldering with a crew of us from Mission Valley A16 store before she gave a slide show that weekend.
Lynn is a beautiful woman. I can never show that image though in public (compromising). Being able to do the splits and stand on micro-knobs helps when you need to unload your arms, and she can certainly do that.
Kryptonite I tell you. Kryptonite.
Eric, I have to convince you and Chris to come out to Mt. Woodson for this event. It will be a blast. The last one was really memorable and great fun. Good showing by our San Diego crew but Eric and Chris were missing!:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1034716&tn=0
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gonamok
Trad climber
poway, ca
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Jan 21, 2010 - 02:19am PT
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Uncertainty Principle was put up as a TR and thats the way it is. If you want bolts, put up your own route in your style. You cant mess with someone else's route to suit your desires. Thats why if anybody but Bill Ramsey bolts that face, the bolts wont last. When a misguided lad added bolts back in 92, they were painstakingly removed to minimize scarring, and the holes were filled with matching grout by a close friend of mine.
Both he and i talked to the bolter afterward, let him vent and explained local culture and tradition and why his bolts were removed. He wasnt happy, but understood eventually. I was replacing bad TR bolts on classic boulders on the hill at that time and he generously donated the hangers to the cause, and the whole thing had a happy ending.
More bolts will suffer the same fate (not necessarily by my hand, almost any long time local will do it if needed) and its bad for the rock and peoples feelings, so please leave Ramseys masterpiece as you found it. Thanks, Ron
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REIGN 1
Trad climber
Mt. Woodson, Ca
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Jan 21, 2010 - 05:04am PT
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Ron has it right. I remember this kid that though he was the next Bachar talking trash about PHD. He decided to go down and lead the route ground up placing bolts next to the flake. The route is Ricks and the bolts got pulled. Woodson is just a hill laced with boulders, BUT it has a lot of history and the old locals still try to abide by the old rules. I have alot of respect for the guys that did these routes and if they don't think UP should be bolted, then I wouldn't bolt it.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Jan 21, 2010 - 06:03am PT
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I remember I was shocked and couldn't(and didn't attempt to)hide my disgust, when a young climber(A16 employee)approached me in the store, and beaming with pride, stated that he and a friend had bolted/lead UP the day before. I just walked away shaking my head. Shortly thereafter I moved north.
That was around the time(early 90's)that all the sport/top-down etc. madness hit, and I expected the worse. I have climbed locally since 1970, and Woodson since @71'.
There is just something about Woodson, the stone, the trails, the hike to the top. Can't realy put it into words, but I guess it's like the petroglyphs, the cave paintings. They have a history, they've been given names. They tell a story. They're part of our past. Our children's future.
It's nice that there is a place where people can go and discover it just like we did. Pass along the stories...create their own. Find out if they measure up to mom and pop...to those old geezers on ST.
So, I am glad to here those bolts didn't last long, that it is once again pure and natural...the way we found it.
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gonamok
Trad climber
poway, ca
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Jan 21, 2010 - 07:48am PT
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Hairy, airy highball/solo climbs are mt woodsons legacy. when the tr gets too tame, solo it. Hangdog bolts are as safe as a tr anyway. If you havent aired it out on a route that has you scared to tears way too far off the deck you aint a woodson climber. Thats how its always been and thats how we like it.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Jan 21, 2010 - 10:18am PT
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I agree competely with Ron. Woodson is an amazing, magical place with all the oldschool charm and needs to stay that way. Places like Boulder Canyon have been scared by "grid" bolting, bolts every four feet on routes and sqeezed together. We have actually been cleaning up the landings on some of the higher boulders so they can be soloed with a calm head and serious consequences. Airstream is one on my list as the landing now is completely flat.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 21, 2010 - 11:16am PT
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yep, what ron said. climbing bold at woodson has always been about a) working the highball until you get it, b) getting it REALLY wired on tr, and c) adding it to your solo circuit. the place had and has a style all it's own. even in the context of oldschool west coast ethics, the woodson style has always stood out. it's a proud window into the past for today's boulderers.
i remember when piggot took bachar and crew to the lie detector. they work working it out and bachar started cleaning some of the ankle snapper rocks from the base. piggot gave him the stink eye and insisted that the nasty landing was part of the problem's "character." talk about trad!
let's keep it that way, eh?
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Jan 21, 2010 - 01:31pm PT
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Move Over Junior has been repeated, ironically by a rather young climber. Dan Beall has done it for sure. He'll be at the Woodson gathering. Any of you thin face masters should try his new testpiece Raindance.
I tried Move Over Junior for the first time by headlamp a few months ago and I managed all the moves but one. Wow what a move that was! Some crazy throw from a micro knob to another knob or edge way out right. At least the feet were OK if I remember right. I need to go back and get on that thing again... I'm not sure I can pull it off, but it's fun trying!
Josh
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Jan 21, 2010 - 01:33pm PT
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BVB-Yeah, the solo circuit. That's what I loved about the place. You could get a tr on something a few times, or weekend after weekend perhaps. And then on one of those solo ventures, middle of the week, nobody else around, at first, just working your way up to the crux. I did that with airplane crack. Would go up to the crux, and then down climb it. Then one afternoon I committed myself to it, felt realy cool. The crux being the last couple of moves. Added it to the circuit. There is that sense of freedom when you go up to Woodson alone.
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Brunosafari
Boulder climber
OR
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Jan 21, 2010 - 02:11pm PT
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"always been" - BVB
Well, yes and no, Bob. By 73, I'd say top rope rehearsal toward the goal of soloing was well established, evolved, I'd say. Yet in the sixties, it was a hodgepodge which included spontaneous onsight soloing, up to .11+; usually face climbs, mantles and flare, offwidth problems. We did not yet properly understand hand jams though. These "routes" were spontaneous, and we didn't bother to name them or even think about them again. We very often didn't know where we were and didn't want to repeat some of the bushwacks anyway, even if we had the hope of finding the climb. With so much rock, we would just explore until we bumped into something which looked possible. In the sixties we did not use chalk and climbed in tennis shoes, klettershuhs, and eventually, the Blue Suede.
I think Greg Cameron said it well on a thread somewhere--We were obsessed to one day climb in Yosemite, and so we thought of ourselves as just practicing at Woodson, not really climbing. In fact I did not consider myself a real climber at that time, because we knew we were still boys, not men. Greg climbed often with my brother, Kinley, Phantom X) We didn't realize our own progress--For example the aid climbing on the classic Big Walls seemed technically easy once we got there. We really did deliberately train ourselves to control fear, and in general, this was the most important aspect of climbing to master. Yet still, it was just better training, a very definite notch beyond the boulders surrounding our homes in Poway.
Greg Cameron and Rick Piggot, to this day, possibly don't really know how much activity took place there before they even started climbing. Hysterically funny and immeasurably brilliant, Dave Goeddel, was an outstanding face climber, The dominant and defining personality of the Poway Mountaineers, and it was Dave who was first motivated to climb at Woodson with more ambition, following the Robbins visit. Greg Cameron and Rick started climbing, fortuitously, at about that same time. Greg climbed often with my brother, Kinley, (the Phantom X), but Kinley had already climbed at Woodson and Tahquitz before Greg had started. The two of them accomplished some great things, given their age (12-14?), and in frightening style. For example, the North Buttress of Middle Cathedral Rock, when high school sophomores.
Greg, one of the newer Poway Climbers, went out for water polo at school and suddenly became very strong and fit ..., but even then, 50% of his body weight was in his hands. By '73 only Greg and Rick remained in Poway, and they began to tear it up, building upon a more accurate awareness of what free climbing was all about.
In spite of Gregs immense talent, It was Rick Piggot, who truly began to treat Woodson with the respect it deserved. Get on your little brother's Schwinn, peddle up the mountain from Poway and solo, on-sight highballs, in the summer, sometimes at your limit, and you will have, perhaps, the essence of his focus. A true, visionary hard man, he was, but also a kind person of wry humor if you got to know him, and a great rope partner. But warning: don't get touchy-feely.
For all of the interest in levels of difficulty and later, the competitions, the early days were most memorable for the incessant, out of control humor and good times of adventure, pushing ourselves hard and bloody while dreaming of the Salathé Wall.
Seeing your classic write up on Woodson, Bob, was one of my happiest days as a climber. Thanks for that and the enthusiasm. And by the way, Brook Sandahl says hi.
Bruce Adams, Oregon
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Jan 21, 2010 - 02:14pm PT
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Raindance, the face next to the road at the practice boulders. I'm a little confused about the V11 rating. That would make it a 5.14 face which I do not think could exhist. .13a is about as hard as a face can be to make the ratings consistant. Flakes are still breaking on that face and the rock quality is kinda shitty. It may clean up over time but the loose and sharp flakes are the only holds.
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