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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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so this thread is about non believers now? not about facts and proof?
sounds like religious persecution to me. line up the non believers so they can be shot.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Well, I'm gonna stack the poll in favor of 9-11 truth:
http://patriotsquestion911.com/
(gee WB, you stole my link post! lol. Gotta post fast around here)
Yea, I guess all of these government officials, military officers, and insiders, and all of these sane patriots are just "whackos" aren't they?
Well, I gladly stand up with them. Guess I'm a "whacko" patriot then.
It is time to look in the mirror and see the monster. The monster is us. We did 9-11 to ourselves. It was a self-inflicted wound and it had a dark purpose. Follow the money.
9-11 was an inside job, but many are too scared too contemplate it, or you have a job where if they knew that is how you really felt, you would be out on the street. Be honest. "Search your feelings Luke, you know it too be true." That is sad. Very sad. So you would rather swallow a lie hook, line, and sinker and keep your job, than to be without one. Hey, I understand the real motivations. I really do. But be honest with yourself and at least secretly admit it when no one is around and they can't hear you. I know. People will do amazing things to keep their jobs, especially in this economic climate. But be honest with yourself. You don't have to tell me or the World, but be honest with yourself. If you are OK, hiding out, and preaching the OCT to keep your job, I understand.
But if that is the case, we will never resolve this massive problem, and they will keep doing this over and over again. When do the lies stop? How far are you willing to let it go and for how long? Are you willing to lose your Country, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights that made this country at one time great?
I'm not.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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wow. You folks that believe in this type of conspiracy theory have no clue...
I have worked for the government dealing with some pretty sensitive stuff (weapons filled with nerve agent, clean-up of Defense derived radioactive waste, etc.) Trust me (I work for the government) when I tell you that you are nuts...
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Oh, Ok Golsen. I trust you then. You work for the government.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Kennewick, Richland, Tri-city area yea, I know all about the DOE and the incredible waste we have there in Hanford. My dad worked at Hanford.
My dad thinks the same thing. But he has a job where thinking these things can get you into trouble. so I understand where you are coming from.
But my dad is coming around. Truth sinks in eventually.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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And Anders,
For such a good norski as yourself, I am surprised the propaganda has conditioned you so. When I visited family all along the southern coast, from Oslo down to Kristiansand in 2003, no-one I talked to believed what the media spewed out to the American public. They were surprised we bought into the 19 hijackers conspiracy theory. They weren't bombarded day and night by the sensationalism the media created.
But anyway, why do you seem so defensive about "conspiracies"?
By the way, I did enjoy a wonderful 2 weeks of sunshine at Squamish, finally this year, in large part due to your historical posting. Thanks.
Arne
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Yeah. Funny thing is that I chose this as opposed to a high $ Oil job so as to make more of a difference in life.
What some folks do not understand is that federal employees are no different than the rest of the population. And while New Administrations crop up every 4 years, the federal employees stay the course and are charged with keeping things on track. Oh and yes, that means complying with the Laws of the Land...
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dirtbag
climber
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S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and fattrad did it.
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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"wow. You folks that believe in this type of conspiracy theory have no clue...
I have worked for the government dealing with some pretty sensitive stuff (weapons filled with nerve agent, clean-up of Defense derived radioactive waste, etc.) Trust me (I work for the government) when I tell you that you are nuts... "
Ditto that ... I worked at one of the nuke waste sites for a while - probably got some of golsen's trash shipped to me ... Our government is too inept and slow to pull off what ya'll suggest.
I met a couple guys who worked at the pentagon, and were there at the time of the attack. One of their wives was outside and was killed by debris. Their stories leave no doubt in my mind that you guys are f-ing nutbars.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Here's what really gets me. You guys say, "trust me" the government aint that smart. OK, no real problem there. You say, look at how they can't even distribute the vaccine. Right, so far.
But then, on Sept 12th, the government tells you they have the first and last names of all 19 hijackers, their country of origin, and the whole official story. So, you accept that without question (the same inept government remember). Their story-version becomes the "official" version and everyone else's theory is conspiracy.
That's a double standard. Your faith amazes me!
Arne
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WBraun
climber
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Yeah they're just jackasses.
Just because there are a million different theories and conspiracy hypothesis on the net doesn't mean everyone believes in them.
But what's the first thing these jackasses do.
They have their usual stupid knee jerk reactions and try to lump everyone into a boat of being a wingnut and idiot attributed to all those ideas.
And just because you work for the govt somewhere doesn't mean you know jack sh'it either.
I work for the govt myself too. Big fuking deal. Does that make me an expert too?
Nope, I don't know jack sh'it either .....
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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But then, on Sept 12th, the government tells you they have the first and last names of all 19 hijackers, their country of origin, and the whole official story. The full names and home countries of all passengers on the four planes would have been recorded when they checked in for the flights.
Did the government in fact identify the 19 as the hijackers on September 12th? If so, were they positive about it, or did they simply suggest that it appeared that was what had happened? I'd guess that:
1. They were very suspicious of the circumstances - four groups of five (or four) Arabs/Saudis, one group on each plane.
2. They had information to suggest that the most likely culprits were Arab terrorists.
3. They might by then have obtained some information tying some or all of the hijackers to the events - flight training, history, etc.
I don't think they had "the whole official story" on September 12th. No one did, or could have. They had certainty as to who was on the plane, circumstantial (and some direct - phone calls) evidence that strongly suggested that whatever had happened, the groups of Arabs on the planes were involved, and general knowledge of al Qaeda threats against the US. I suspect they didn't go beyond suggesting that two plus two probably equalled four, but given the Oklahoma City experience, weren't more definite for a few days.
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WBraun
climber
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Mighty Hiker -- "I'd guess that:"
Right there you're speculating.
The minute you say "I'd guess" you might as well go home .....
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Yes Mighty, you need to use the same language as Rox in his first post. He knows that 9/11 was/is a conspiracy...
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dirtbag
climber
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I met a couple guys who worked at the pentagon, and were there at the time of the attack. One of their wives was outside and was killed by debris. Their stories leave no doubt in my mind that you guys are f-ing nutbars.
Worth repeating. RIP.
One question I have is why folks would invent such kooky conspiracy ideas to circumvent the truth? Some folks are just naturally drawn to conspiracy thoeries.
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WBraun
climber
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dirtbag -- " ... ideas to circumvent the truth?"
This is saying you know the whole truth.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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"One question I have is why folks would invent such kooky conspiracy ideas to circumvent the truth? Some folks are just naturally drawn to conspiracy thoeries."
One reason to cook up Kooky conspiracy theories is to discredit people who might actually catch on to a real conspiracy at work.
For example, no extensive or great conspiracy would be required merely to find out about the impending attacks and schedule war games intended to distract radar and military assets away from the area. Only a few CIA and Cheney would need to know.
But we don't even hear about that part. Why did Cheney tell the jets to stand down? Who ordered those war games?
If I wanted you to ignore suspicions that your partner was embezzling from your company, I'd start an accusation that your partner was an agent from Iran and he was using your company to launder money from an opium sales being used to finance plutonium production, cause we are secretly in bed with the Iranians to keep military sales up.
Peace
Karl
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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There's not much doubt that the government - any government, even in liberal democracies like Canada and the U.S. - does things we don't know about, that it doesn't tell us about, and that it doesn't want us to know about. Sometimes for legitimate security reasons, sometimes due to the agendas of civil servants or politicans. There's also little doubt that governments have enormous resources, are often unnecessarily secretive, and sometimes lie, or conceal the truth. And I rather suspect (sorry, Werner - guess) that the US government hasn't told us everything about what happened on 11th September 2001, and related events, and that the public investigation was flawed. Or, for that matter, about the war against Iraq and the reasons for it.
Jumping from that to assume that far-fetched conspiracy theories about the Kennedy and King assassinations, non-landing on the near side of the Moon, landings on the far side of the Moon, space aliens, whatever happened on 2001, evolution, the H1N1 flu shot, global warming, Iraq, and on and on are true requires an enormous leap of faith, largely unsupported by fact. A jump that requires that one believe.
I don't. I'm a skeptic, and cheerfully apply Occam's Razor to all such nonsense. Reality is a complicated place, and not every single fact needs to be fully and completely explained, for a theory to be borne out. And just because something can't be disproven doesn't mean that it, and any edifice of assumptions built on it, is true.
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dirtbag
climber
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This is saying you know the whole truth.
Yeah, I do. Not all facets, but a plane did crash into the pentagon.
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