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pdx_climber
Sport climber
portland,or
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Nov 18, 2009 - 10:53pm PT
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hey pate, I laughed at the bus, laughed hard actually!
thanks
&
see you in hell.....
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Nov 18, 2009 - 10:56pm PT
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I am the wheel and wheel will shatter.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nov 18, 2009 - 11:02pm PT
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Yeah, I love laughing at stupid Christians, they are all stupid. Me, I know I'm smart, after all I went to school and got a college degree.
There is no proof of God, so why believe, there is no reason to. After all of my profound studies I found no proof. And all those intellectuals before us never definitively proved God exists. So why should I?
It's all a sham.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 18, 2009 - 11:04pm PT
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And don't forget, your real God is modern science ......
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franky
climber
Davis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2009 - 11:12pm PT
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Hmm, I didn't think science was a god. A lesser known hindu one perhaps?
Also, being christian is one thing, starting a smear campaign against a dead scientist who revolutionized his field is a totally different cup of tea (even if done in the name of god and jebus).
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pdx_climber
Sport climber
portland,or
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Nov 18, 2009 - 11:29pm PT
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think modern science 5,000 years from now.
Much of what we see as the hand of god, or strange ju-ju, could be explained via some uber bizarre and as of today, undiscovered physics?????
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Nov 18, 2009 - 11:32pm PT
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......."starting a smear campaign against a dead scientist who....."
Franky, this thread of yours kinda smells like a smear campain. You might want to think about the old glass house analogy before postin' up something like this.
By the way, those folks are kinda nuts and they bug Christians like me too. I kinda lump 'em in with all the "activists" (Tree huggers, naked men in Berkley, PETA, you name it) you find on college campuses who love to hear themselves scream and rant and attempt to save the world as they see it. Its all just entertainment unless you let it get to you.
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jbar
Social climber
urasymptote
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Nov 19, 2009 - 01:09am PT
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Hmm, well I don't know who those people are or what their exact beliefs are either but I don't lump all people of one religion into a single category. Assuming all Christians are nutjobs would be like assuming all muslims are terrorists.
1st things 1st. Darwin never refutiated the existance of God. He even cited his belief in a "Creator". And while I do understand that species evolve I also know that Darwin never said that man directly descended from apes. He postulated was that we had a common ancestor. Most people with darwin/fish stickers on their cars really don't even understand the concept of evolution. Any time I ask someone to explain natural selection they inevitably lead off into the territory of Linnaeus and aquired characteristics. I read the Origin Of Species cover to cover and quoted it often while studying Zoology. I wish more people would too. Remember as well that natural selection is a theory and not a law.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 19, 2009 - 02:03am PT
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Excellent post, jbar.
John
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franky
climber
Davis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2009 - 02:15am PT
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blah blah blah...
It doesn't matter what Darwin believed, not in the slightest. Scientific knowledge in its refined form is entirely modular, like a good computer program. You can take any idea, and plug it in anywhere, into anything. Darwin's idea is basically like a mathematical function. Do Newton's beliefs change the way a differential is calculated?
Also, the book is titled "The Origin of Species" not "The Origin of Life".
This debate is almost entirely disconnected from science anyway.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Nov 19, 2009 - 06:29am PT
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Dirtbag: "Mocking them draws attention to their cause."
And mocking only hardens and entrenches them in their beliefs.
Making a spectacle on campus, they want attention, they want engagement. Engaging them, positively or negatively, reinforces their urge for recognition. Attention addicts love acclamation but can deal with scorn and taunting. Inattention and neglect is something they CAN'T deal with and they invariably move on without receiving the acclaim they crave.
(But that applies to those motivated and rewarded by attention. Those who pose tangible threats to life and property should not be ignored. If you're Mr Stalin, and a million Nazi troops are assembling on your frontier, it's best not to ignore them.)
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JoeSimo
Trad climber
New York
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Nov 19, 2009 - 11:02am PT
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I always find it best to let them kill themselves with their own message. A few months ago I was home alone when I heard a knock on the door. I go down to find 2 christian missionary types standing there with literature ready to preach the good word to me. Immediately I had thoughts to tell them to "leave: "go F--- themselves" or to explain how I was an atheist and damn proud of it. Of course I realized none of these would be much fun and would probably only embolden them to continue coming back and trying to convert me and/or save my soul. So, I thought of a better idea. I would be super nice to them and completely interested in what they had to say asking appropriate questions. Here is our exact conversation as best I can remember it:
Me: Can I help you?
Them: Good afternoon sir we are going around this afternoon from such and such church spreading the word of God. (Honestly dont remember the name, they all sound the same to me)
Me: Oh ok
Them: Do you feel the world is heading to a calamity in the near future?
Me: Well lets see. We got global warming, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, terrorism, the failing global economy and all kinds of new diseases popping up around the world. So, doesn't look to good does it!
Them: (chuckle) Thats why we believe the kingdom of heaven is going to arrive soon and Jesus will bring peace to the world
Me: Wow does he have his job cut out for him!
Them: (awkward chuckle)
They hand me some literature outlining there message. Complete with picture of very white people living in a field with sheep, wolves, lions and bunnies.
Me: Won't this wolf eat this sheep?
Them: No. When the kingdom of heaven arrives everything will live in peace like this.
Me: But the wolf has to eat as does this lion so eventually they will kill these sheep and those bunnies to continue living.
Them: Nope when the kingdom of heaven arrive all creatures on earth will live in peace
Me: So what will the wolves and lions eat?
Them: Hay
Me: Hay???
Them: yes all creatures on earth will start eating hay and everything will get along
Me: But wolves and lions lack the digestive system and digestive enzymes to break down hay into the needed nutrients. Their gastrointestinal systems are designed to eating and processing meat.
Them: (Long pause) no they will change and eat hay
Me: Well, if everything on the earth is now eating hay won't there be massive hay shortages? Do humans eat hay too? Can I still eat apples if I want?
Them: (Now clearly trying to leave) We just know the animals will eat hay and everything will get along in peace. Just read the literature and it will explain everything.
Me: What about people with a gluten allergy will they be ok?
Them: (forced laugh) have a good day sir.
They then left and never came back to the neighborhood. Guess my point being its always better to let them dig their own hole and to keep letting them dig themselves in deeper and deeper.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Nov 19, 2009 - 11:05am PT
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hand them black sabbath cd's and that will stop them in their tracks!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nov 20, 2009 - 02:35pm PT
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we should all be outraged that the Government invaded the ARMED compound of a religious fanatic and accused child molester?
I think the outrage came in the final outcome - burning the place to the ground killing everybody inside, including innocent children.
Koresh WAS cuckoo for coco-nuts though.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nov 20, 2009 - 03:22pm PT
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Wes, they should have either waited it out with Koresh or just gone in with armored vehicles through the gate. I'd still feel the same way regardless of which religion was inside.
With regard to Aghan/Iraq, it is different. And we don't target innocent people. Am I "ouraged" when innocents get caught up in the combat, not really, but it is saddening.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 20, 2009 - 03:33pm PT
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Wes, that was post 666
woooo..
Bluering Loves Muslims and wants them immune from police actions as well
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Nov 20, 2009 - 06:21pm PT
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Ya know bluering..i work with hawks. as in i hunt with them, train them, interact with them. a hawk is a fearless creature. my specialty is redtailed hawks, and as far as raptors go, they are utterly fearless. They will take on prey equal to and greater than their own weight. So when war mongerers are refered to as hawks, i guess i find it offensive. a hawk has no fear. a war mongerer is usually someone who'se never experienced the bullshit of war, the day to day survival. a hawk has. normally, i read your posts with some chagrin and a little humor, because i see someone who is fascinated with the "warrior" aspect of war, and not the running-children-down-in-the-street-with-the-hummer aspect of it. or the opening-up-with-the-.50cal-on-the-hotel aspect of it. it seems to me you view afghans and iraqis as little more than animals. innocents like women and children don't stir a little outrage in your heart? the military doesn't target innocents? maybe not, but you ever hear of collateral damage?
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franky
climber
Davis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 20, 2009 - 08:05pm PT
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not outraged at an innocent's death?
I'm glad i don't see the world the way you do. I guess I should be glad you are at least saddened, that is probably more than the average fox news watcher feels.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nov 20, 2009 - 10:13pm PT
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I'm glad i don't see the world the way you do. I guess I should be glad you are at least saddened, that is probably more than the average fox news watcher feels.
Look, idiots, you can disagree with the wars all you want. How many civilian innocents were kiled on 9/11? Now we go to pursue these death-mongers and they seek shelter next to civilians as we pursue them, so yeah, it saddens me that innocent civilians are killed. Am I outraged!!!! No. Almost every target where civi's were killed had legit targets hiding next to it.
So, no, I'm not outraged at our military. I'm outraged that you have little sympathy for the professionalism of our forces to ATTEMPt to limit civi deaths. Have you seen the ROE of our forces nowaday? We go out of our way to even limit fire on a mosque sheltering 'enemy combatants' that we're taking fire from.
That's what outrages me.
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Nov 20, 2009 - 10:13pm PT
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Wes brought up a good point about Christians seeming to get bothered when people make fun of the "crazy christians."
I think it must be a knee jerk reaction by those of us who really are Christians....and I'm not sure why we do it. You either are a Christian or you aren't. Those that aren't really have no significant bearing on the universe as a whole as it pertains to the big picture so I'm not sure why we find it bothersome.
I suppose its because we often don't want to be confused or associated with those who we are not.
Kinda like I feel when my uncle sees a Fresno Bee article about a touron falling off the edge of Bridalveil falls and exclaiming...."See! You climbers are fools! Stupid, selfish fools who don't care about anyone but yourselves"
Kinda makes me want to let him know "those aren't my people." I dont know why, it just does.
Weschrist, does that help?
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