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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Oct 18, 2012 - 04:03am PT
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Well, since my point of view it shows a bolt ladder...
At least this time you don't accuse the FA of hiding the holes with mud as you did on Intifada. But still no explanation of angles in the hook anchor...
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raymond phule
climber
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Oct 18, 2012 - 04:06am PT
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But still no explanation of angles in the hook anchor...
Yes, why don't Pelut answer that one? Cant you ask him to make a comment about those holes and all other holes on the route?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 18, 2012 - 04:31am PT
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But still no explanation of angles in the hook anchor...
You know the really funny/ironic part about this aspect of the SA? I didn't even FIND the "hook anchor" until I was cleaning the pitch. I went right past it during the lead, because that small ledge was so covered over by flowing mud! So, the irony to me is that I was amazed at how deep those holes were through that section, because they were much deeper than other places on the first pitch. But I didn't then realize how those deeper holes related to the "hook anchor."
Only during the clean did it start to make sense to me, because those much deeper holes are exactly above and below the "hook anchor," right where they would need to be if you wanted more secure placements there on the FA! So, laughably, I wouldn't even have known WHERE to drill out holes deeper IF my nefarious purpose was to discredit the "hook anchor" by drilling/lying. MOST of the holes on the route are not that deep. So, why are they only that deep just above and below the "hook anchor?"
Again, I await an account (with pic-proof) of what the FA team used in the lower of those two angle holes. And HOW big/deep of special bashies did Pelut use in THOSE holes, even if they were bashies. They sure weren't going anywhere!
"Hook anchor...." Yeah, right. Drilled hooks and DEEPLY drilled holes fore and aft.
As Raymond repeatedly asks, let's hear Pelut answer for himself. You, RH, are doing him no service at this point.
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Oct 18, 2012 - 06:04am PT
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Well, at the moment only Jeremy and Paul can pic-proof things if they want, but what I say is that your credibility tends to zero having in account what you did on the route and what yourself uploaded in your web page. A web page created on March 31 although you started the SA on mid May and in which you don't even answer Pelut's meetings request, something that a normal people would have done...
Let's see (pics come from Jensen's web page and this supertopo thred)...
Storm of applause and a huge ovation! Superhoero of aid-climbing!
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Oct 18, 2012 - 06:30am PT
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Mighty respectable RH, but there's a few points I'd like to make with some photos of my own if I may...
Your arguments are innately ad hominem, and irrelevant. What say you, gunsmoke?
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raymond phule
climber
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Oct 18, 2012 - 06:59am PT
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Why didn't Pelut himself comment about all the holes that it is now claimed that Rickard drilled on the second ascent while claiming that it was Pelut that drilled those holes?
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Oct 18, 2012 - 06:59am PT
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I say prejudice against non-american aid climbers, my friend!
For umpteenth time, a rational person would say, ok, perhaps the FA team didn't openend the route with in a good style (so let's put down in words), but since the SA was a complete destruction (retrobolting) of the route since the first meter, and since it is pretty clear that at least he lied on the angle above the hook anchors, this man has a very poor credibility although in the past he has said the true about WOS. In addition, he didn't answer Pelut meeting requests on a web page that he had ex-professo created 1,5 months ago to even begin the SA, so how can we know that all that he shows is true? Can we wait until he releases the so announced video? And in addition, we cannot ignore that the FA team had repeated well-known hard aid-climbs (remember that Intifada is A4+/A5 rated, so perhaps nobody should write they should learn to climb...) and have opened new hard routes, so perhaps they deserve a little bit more of respect than the one showed specially at the beginning of this thred. More or less is just this what rational people would expect to find...
But again I do not expect anything else than new hoax, taunt, etc...
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raymond phule
climber
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Oct 18, 2012 - 07:35am PT
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I really do not know if you are a troll or just stupid. You have not proved without a doubt the richard lied about the deep holes around the hook anchor because it is impossibly to tell the depth of the hole from a video. Over and over you say that rickard should have answer a post on his homepage a month after the last activity on that site and written in a language that I am not sure if Richard understands (and the google translations is not really that good).
You just see things in pics that no one else sees. If you for example look at the picture of the first pitch that you show above you see that the peckers is below the cooperheads and that it is impossibly to see what pelut is attached to.
I just find it strange that you want more and more information from everyone except Pelut. If pelut at least had said that he didn't drill a lot of the placements on the route we would at least have a situation where words stands against words. Now is it Richards words against your imagination.
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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Oct 18, 2012 - 09:26am PT
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raymond phule
climber
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Oct 18, 2012 - 09:28am PT
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Any change of position expected as I told...
Why should anyone change position when your posts do not show or prove anything new?
I am thinking about going to Montserrat with a hammer and chisel to chip a couple of routes behind the monastery (or maybe even glue on some holds on the monastery so people can get in a good workout without having to walk far from the restaurant). If someone complain is it only to play the prejudice card.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
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Oct 18, 2012 - 09:52am PT
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It's about goddamn time we had some PowerPoint graphics.
HO
LEE
FUKK
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Oct 18, 2012 - 09:57am PT
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I say prejudice against non-american aid climbers, my friend!
For umpteenth time, a rational person would say, ok, perhaps the FA team didn't openend the route with in a good style (so let's put down in words), but since the SA was a complete destruction (retrobo
Sweet Pete, our new line of SmarTrolls - the RH-500s - is ready to hit production, but as the prototype demonstrates, the RH can't learn. WHY CAN'T THE RH LEARN???
...Oh well.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Oct 18, 2012 - 10:14am PT
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Look, Rivet Hanger,
I'm going to say this once, as politely as possible.
This is Luna. She is an Alicorn, essentially a goddess of the night. She was imprisoned in the moon for a thousand years by her sister Celestia, goddess of the day, due to a potentially genocidal falling out between them. She was restored by the Elements of Harmony and she and her sister patched things up. And now, she's hanging out with ducks.
Adorable baby ducks.
This has as much bearing on the quality of the FA as anything you have thus far presented.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHERE I AM GOING WITH THIS?!
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Oct 18, 2012 - 10:29am PT
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Well Rivit.. I do admire your tenacity, but I agree that your defense may be doing Pelut more harm than good at this point. The arguments are getting insane and there are some fundamental differences in perception about ethics and what constitutes "destruction" that we will never agree on.
I say prejudice against non-american aid climbers, my friend!
Rivit. I can assure you this has nothing to do with Pelut being "non American" American climbers are passionate about discussing ethics in general. Had the FA been done by an American I can guarantee you with 100% certainty that this thread and all the arguing and attacks would be no different. The criticism of Pelut rest on his tactics and his outrageous claims, not the fact that he is a Spaniard. Battles rage all the time and to my knowledge, this is the first time a foreigner has been at the center of it. so I'd put that accusation to rest.
This thread doesn't hold a candle to the WOS debate which has something like 2000 posts from arm-chair critics on this site alone. Richard defended himself for years against his fellow Americans and in the end he was vindicated so we have every reason to believe what he says to be totally true. Even you agree.:
For umpteenth time, a rational person would say, ok, perhaps the FA team didn't openend the route with in a good style (so let's put down in words), but since the SA was a complete destruction (retrobolting) of the route since the first meter, and since it is pretty clear that at least he lied on the angle above the hook anchors, this man has a very poor credibility although in the past he has said the true about WOS.
Consider me a nuetral bystander BTW. As a conservationist - any hard nailing anywhere, by anyone, on any piece of rock, seems abhorrent to me. My opinion has zero weight but I'll stand behind the Fischer Towers since they have no voice. The best outcome for this whole ordeal would be for a third ascent to chop it all. Remove every piece of metal (and wood?) and let the mud flow and erase this travesty. The towers deserve better.
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Oct 18, 2012 - 10:33am PT
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This could be a metaphoric story about how prejudices should be left apart? Or even in the case of existing, racinality should prevale over them?
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Oct 18, 2012 - 10:40am PT
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Just in case I'm being unclear, your arguments have all the sense of Pinkie Pie acting as a detective, the wisdom of Twilight Sparkle deciding that time travel is a good idea, and the precision of Derpy Hooves conducting surgery after drinking a case of whiskey. Your buddy Pelut desperately needs a new PR guy, and in any case you're remaining intentionally blind to just about everything that anyone in this thread has been trying to tell you regarding Pelut and his climbing style and ethics.
If you were to remove your own blinders of "this is all just american prejudice", open your eyes and take a good, frank look at the mess this FA was, you would have to admit that you know what Pelut Pony's cutie mark would be...
By the way, could you do me a favor and post something just below here that reinforces your stubborn, insistent, relentless, and even _magical_ refusal to understand or acknowledge what anyone has been trying to tell you?
Ah, there we are, thank you!
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Oct 18, 2012 - 10:41am PT
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Ok, justthemaid I agree partially with your vision, but since my point of view, you should condemn with more enrgy Jensen's actions. And I do repeat that I only speak in my own name, don't be tricky...
I'll introduce another fact. Check out the Look out! Danger! uploaded on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny7dT0CpKZg); and tell me how many bashie holes do you see? Will Jensen release a video showing his ascent as announced? Will he explain why he placed 2 bolts 2 meters on the ground as Pelut showed in a pic and that I'd love Jeremy and Paul could confirm or not? Is this fact compatible with trying to climb a really hard aid climbing route?
And by the way, you really don't use wood to wedge some pieces? Check out the video and you'll se more wedged pitons than bashie holes... And of course, you won't see three angles arround the 1st belay...
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BlackSpider
Ice climber
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Oct 18, 2012 - 10:45am PT
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Will he explain why he placed 2 bolts 2 meters on the ground?
Are you dense or something? He did this earlier in the thread.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Oct 18, 2012 - 10:51am PT
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What you're failing to get - over and over and over - is that Jensen's SA and you or his or anyone else's ambivalence about going through with it - does not let Pelut off the hook.
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