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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Apr 30, 2013 - 10:13pm PT
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Rick ,we are convincing India and China,these things take time.
In my honest opinion,anyone who does not believe we are warming just does not get outside enough.
Nobodys going to change your mind,its no conspiracy,no hoax,no bulls88t ,it is warming.FACT.
There are extreme ideas on both sides of this discussion/argument/fight.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Apr 30, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
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By the way post up that "Proof" ,there Rick, that you claim. 98% greater than 2%
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Apr 30, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
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we still had an unusually severe and long lasting winter in the northern hemisphere mid to high latitudes overall.
I have a buddy in BC who said it hasnt stopped snowing all winter.
DING DING DING "Climate CHANGE"
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Apr 30, 2013 - 10:23pm PT
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Ron, I don't think anyone gonna watch an hour long vid by some kook who's on his last leg anyhow
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 30, 2013 - 10:27pm PT
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Of course it was warming overall in recent times Wilbeer. That's what the climate does-it oscillates sometimes wildly over short enough time spans to be noticeable in a human lifetime or even shorter periods. In historic times we have had the Roman warm period followed by the cold of the dark ages followed by the Medieval warm period followed by the little ice age followed by our warming of the immediate past. Now the consensus gang will lead you to believe they have identified and quantified all the forcing and regulation mechanisms, quantified each and accounted properly for all in their ever refined models and the results they get out of the computers is incontrovertible proof of AGW. The truth is this old Earth and its natural order is far more complex than science can now, or even in the forseeable future, deduce, quantify, or control.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 30, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
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Kenny the guy in that video is no kook, neither are the many prominent scientists from places like Princeton, Stanford, or MIT that are featured in it. Would you rather blindly be herded along a path that could well turn your kids lifetime upside down into impoverished servitude or spend (along with millions of other americans) a little time investigating for your self.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Apr 30, 2013 - 10:41pm PT
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I'm personally more worried about the Hanta virus today.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Apr 30, 2013 - 10:44pm PT
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Who do you suppose funds their research?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 30, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
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Ahh Kenny- who funds their research is the gangs first line or attack. A better question is who funds the gangs research and how many hundreds of billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of careers are dependent on their predetermined outcome. Gotta go for now. You should start to inform yourself. The video will point the way to lines of investigation you can independently verify.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Apr 30, 2013 - 11:24pm PT
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So, I watched your movie. It's full of lies.
Here, for instance, a screen shot of the graph comparing warming with sun activity:
And here's a screen shot of the same graph, extended to the present:
Google "Global Warming Swindle" and lots of these debunking movies come up. This one for instance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6rXVq_Y-PU
The animated cartoon bit about CO2 and volcanoes is all lies, too.
Why are these film-makers lying to us?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Ed this paper below seems to contradict the assertion that Alaska is still warming, that all the glaciers are melting, and all permafrost thawing. It seems the only part of Alaska that has warmed since 2000 was the north slope and this was a result of the pacific decadal oscillation warming the Beaufort Sea.This also shows the overwhelming majority of Alaska (including adding in the north slope temp increase) is cooling, on average 2.4 degrees fahrenheit over the last twelve years.
As for polar sea ice-the extent of coverage was at historic lows in the summer of 2012 more because of unusual summer winds, storms, and currents that served to push the ice into localized masses of increased thickness rather than loss to melt. This winter more new sea ice was formed than at any other time in observation. Now you know the catastrophists will counter that this is only first year ice and easily prone to melt, but couldn't it also be interpreted as the beginning of a trend back to sea ice extent and thickness as that seen in the 1970's?
Did you know a nobel laureate by the name of Robert B. Laughlin Phd. that worked at Livermore for a time? You know he has rather different views on climate change than that of the supposed consensus, and he is but one of thousands of prominent scientists worldwide that seem to likewise have different views.
P.S. The natives would have been fine if the modern world wouldn't have intruded. There problems are caused by us moderns that built them permanent (site built stick frame homes) villages stupidly right next to the continually changing coastline and separated them from their ancient subsistence lifeways and cultures.
http://www.benthamscience.com/open/toascj/articles/V006/111TOASCJ.pdf
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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This winter more new sea ice was formed than at any other time in observation.
WHERE do you get this stuff? This years Arctic ice extent is the 5th lowest on record. We'll have to wait and see what record is set for melting this year.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dig a little deeper McHale. Buried under an avalanche of "spin" from the catastrohists is what they don't want the public to know-The area of new sea ice formation this last winter was the most extensive in historic times and the area of its extent might be the fifth lowest in recent times but the total mass is well on its way to recovery if the current trend holds.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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No! Dig deeper Ed! LOL! You know that bullshit has got to be around here somewhere!
You really should come over to our side Rick - you will be assimilated anyway. The world has to transition to new energy anyway - it's the way it's going and it won't be stopped. That video Ron put up; All the characters in that are known has-beens that work for big oil, big lies, big bull, you name it. It's comparable to a Monty Python skit. Are those guys your 'thousands' of scientists? Don't answer that....They are!
but the total mass is well on its way to recovery if the current trend holds.
Something can't be on it's way to anywhere when it depends on such a weak 'if'. You will have to become a better bullshitter to fool anyone around here.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Look above at Bruce Kay's personal and hateful attack-it is the standard response that the consensus believers launch against anyone that dares disagree with their cherished views of AGW.At least he admits his ignorance and i guess that's a start.I never believed in the WMD b.s. for the reason for war Bruce, not at the time and not after. You see i had teenage sons, and in an area that saw many kids enlisting out of sense of patriotism i feared my sons would also enlist to be ground up and spit out for the biggest lie and foreign misadventure of modern times. Your type casting is completely incorrect and reflects more on the defects in your own psyche and deficit of your knowledge than mine.
Ed, you seem to always present the work of others as answer to skeptics. Perhaps i'm wrong, but i sense you are not 100% convinced of the "consensus science". At least not enough to bet your future on.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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The most basic argument I can see for AGW is very simple. CO2 concentration has increased. CO2 is a fairly strong greenhouse gas. One should strongly expect some warming based simply on these two facts.
The foundation for AGW is sound. Proper scientific process has a consensus on several key issues involved.
What remains at some significant levels of uncertainty are the details of the future and it's effect on civilization. However I have yet to see good argument that the effect will be positive overall.
Considering that proper development of clean energy is a good idea for many more reasons than just combating global warming I dont see any good argument against it.
What are we arguing about here? Is anyone seriously suggesting we should not look at better energy production systems and usage?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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No were not arguing about sensible, cost effective, ready to deploy alternative energy Derek. We are arguing over an ideology, almost a religion for those that have no other spiritual beliefs. The hundreds of billions of dollars and millions of man hours spent by the catastrophists trying to force feed the public an apocalyptic future scenario and the setting up of carbon credit markets would have been much better spent on R&D of effective alternative energy production. The catatrophists claim there science is pure and based wholly on a solid foundation while contending that any and all of the many, many scientists (many of them professors at the most prestigious universities throughout the world) science and published works are incorrect, ignorant and pawns of major corporations. Well if they can acknowledge scientific corruption on the competing sides part it is not much of a leap for any layperson ,who takes time to investigate, to realize their science is also not immune from corruption. Catastrophic AGW theory will probably eventually collapse itself under the weight of increasing contrary evidence but because their cure would be much worse than the imagined disease, we as responsible citizens, cannot afford to ignore this issue. It is a crazy world of many competing forces of greed and we, the average citizens, are the victims caught in the crossfire.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Ron, Europe has reduced its emissions largely because of the poor economy but China and India have more than offset that by their increase. China surpassed the U.S. in emissions and continues to increase. So to answer your question, the CO2 total of manmade emissions has not decreased, only the rate of increase. In geological epochs of the past the atmospheric content of CO2 has been many times present levels (sometimes hundreds of times more) and the Earth was not destroyed by runaway greenhouse effect. At times it was both much warmer and had much higher atmospheric CO2 while plants and animals thrived. Hell their are dinosaur fossil beds on the north slope of Alaska. Other times very high CO2 content corresponded with periods of intense glaciation, even sometimes in the equatorial region.Clearly their is a disconnect apparent in the geological record.
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