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WBraun
climber
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They measured the weight of the soul as 21 grams
Bullsh!t
You believe everything you read.
The soul is not material and no material instrument can measure the soul.
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WBraun
climber
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The idea that a dead body 'gets heavier
I never made any such statement.
I said it feels heavier
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Well, they can feel heavier for the aforementioned reasons. Leverage is another big factor. You can drape a supple body over you or near you, moving it's center of gravity closer to yours. Not so if it's stiffer.
And I'll admit that I seldom read your posts, Werner, and even then, not very carefully. They're...not all that cogent.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2014 - 02:38pm PT
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Interesting Cintune. Thanks for the reference, I always wondered about that. There were problems with his human methodology for sure, but when I heard he probably poisoned 15 dogs just to experiment on them and found they had no souls, then I knew for sure I didn't trust him or his results.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2014 - 05:18pm PT
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Dingus said:
Be sure to explain to your scientist, largo, the reason we are having this quibble over the nature of the universe... ie you want the door open to mysterious energies that can't be measured, by science - ever. That is the root of this discussion.
Who ever said such a thing. All Mike and I have ever said is that you cannot know all the quandrants of mind by way of measuring, or by the imaginary practice of excluding the observer from your observations. Measuring is about discrete parts. WHat you are proposing is that "reality" is one "thing" that looks a certain way, a belief plainly stated by your words insisting that "energy IS mater." The Harvard professor begs to differ with you.
Where is this discussion are there "mysterious energies?" Who put forth such a claim? What IS "mysterious?" Or better yet, what is the limit of measuring?
JL
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Jim Clipper
climber
from: forests to tree farms
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light
for mr. braun. thanks for your work
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, CA
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Sep 10, 2014 - 04:58am PT
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For me learning is the fun thing. When I'm convinced I know a thing it becomes more difficult to learn that I might be wrong or need to learn more about a subject. My own personal views on science, phylosophy, politics, etc. must always be a work in progress. When I stop learning I've stopped truly living and am only existing. On contemplating the discussion here regarding matter and energy I decided to do a quick google search and picked out these definitions for matter and energy from two different educational web sites for kids and students who are studying. The definitions correlate with what I have read in several books on physics and is basic scientific knowledge.
Matter vs. Energy:
*The universe is made up of matter and energy.
Matter:
1. Has mass
2. Takes up space
3. Is usually a “thing”
Energy:
1. It is not like matter
2. Does not have mass
3. Does not take up space
4. Energy moves matter!!!!!!
** Energy is the ability to make things move. Light, heat, sound, motion, and electricity are all forms of energy.
Properties of Matter: (characteristics)
Color, shape, size, hardness, texture, malleability, porosity, conductivity, odor,
Mass. *(things that help us identify matter).
(Source; www.iteachbio.com)
Fast Facts:
1. Everything in the Universe is made up of matter and energy.
2. Matter is anything that has mass and occupies space.
3. Matter describes the physical things around us: the earth, the air you breathe, your pencil.
Matter is made up of particles called atoms and molecules. Atoms are particles of
elements - substances that cannot be broken down further.
4. There are currently 109 known elements, but obviously there are more than 109 different
substances in the universe. This is because atoms of elements can combine with one another
to form compounds.
5. There are 4 fundamental states of matter: solid, liquid, gas and plasma.
6. Energy is the ability to cause change or do work.
7. Some forms of energy include light, heat, chemical, nuclear, electrical energy and
mechanical energy.
8. There are two main types of energy: potential and kinetic. Potential energy is energy
that is stored, while kinetic energy is energy in use.
9. In order for electrical energy to flow, it must follow a complete path through a circuit.
10. Dark matter refers to material that can't be detected by their emitted radiation but
whose presence can be inferred from gravitational effects on visible matter, like stars
and galaxies. Dark energy, or negative energy, is the energy found in space.
(Source; www.kidsconnect.com)
*REMEMBER*
"For in the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught." -B. Dioum
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, CA
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Sep 10, 2014 - 07:50am PT
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Incidentally I will be spearheading a fund for 'The Preservation of the Natural Universe' and because of the colossal scale of this project donations on the scale of an unspeakable quantity will needed to bankroll this endeavor. Due to the unknowable nature and quantity of the dark matter there will be no limit to the budget and due to the unthinkable forces behind the dark energy any blank checks and all credit card information shall be accepted...
(Sarcasm).
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, CA
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Sep 10, 2014 - 08:02am PT
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Scary...
Also Dingus,
Regarding my last post,
'twas intended as sarcasm with love; with ironoclasmistic intent.
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, CA
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Sep 10, 2014 - 08:05am PT
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Or Ironosarcasmic
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 10, 2014 - 08:23am PT
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Isn't dark matter scientific nomenclature for 'we don't know why are calculations are off, but they are grossly OFF. Must be dark matter?'
Dark matter might be better labeled MISSING MATTER?
not now... the characteristics of dark matter are distinct from dark energy, both of which account for the missing matter.
But the two have very different properties.
While we do not have a definitive explanation of either dark matter or dark energy, we have candidate explanations of both. Over the next 20 to 40 years, it will be the focus of research in high energy physics (by way of precision cosmology rather than particle accelerators) to study dark energy. Experiments are underway to identify the candidates for dark matter.
Cosmology, and particle physics, have drawn a box around what those things could be... the boundaries of the box are tightened until we have the explanation.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 10, 2014 - 08:35am PT
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They will spend billions on research, expensive machines and tax the average poor citizen of their hard earned meager incomes to try and understand dark matter.
All while it's right there in front of them all along.
When you study the "egg" and really "see" then you will come to the understanding.
It's very simple and that's why the gross materialists are so bewildered and make it so complicated.
This is the reason Largo's thread was originally started.
Knowledge ..... it's not outside of you ......
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 10, 2014 - 08:52am PT
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spending money on knowledge instead of death?
Get rid of all those criminals running Washington DC you might have chance ....
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Sep 10, 2014 - 08:55am PT
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You could start that trend towards knowledge by reading a bit of Strassler, Dingus. Free of charge.
Just sayin...
We COULD get rid of 'those criminals' in Washington, but first...
1) 'We'd' have to decide who 'we' are. You and your pals? Me and mine? I think that's what elections are for.
2) 'We'd' have to decide who, exactly, 'those criminals' are. I think that's what courts are for.
3) then 'we'd' have to decide how to 'get rid' of them without destroying democracy. I think that's what constitutions are for.
cuz if you're talkin' about destruction, doncha know that you can count me out.
Democracy is hard. I heart our democracy though, even if it needs body work and a tune up. At least we ain't killin' each other...any more. They system can work to produce long lasting, positive change, but you gotta commit long term to make that happen rather than carping from the sidelines and wishing everybody would 'just wake up.' People are awake - we just don't agree on some things. Never did. Never will.
Critics? You can't swing a dead Ralph Nader pamphlet without hitting one.
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, CA
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Sep 10, 2014 - 09:02am PT
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Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
(the other JL)
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 10, 2014 - 09:16am PT
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Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
Says the sheep in the field behind the slaughter house happily eating grass .....
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Sep 10, 2014 - 09:21am PT
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Go nutz, Werner. A Better Future America awaits your action. Make it happen, buddy.
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