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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 11, 2013 - 11:43pm PT
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Where is your sense of humor Ed? I don't take any of this personally, it is just spirited and educational arguments. I was not implying anything towards you in saying the solar hot water was the only home technology that had bang for the buck without government subsidy. It was just my personal discovery at my personal home after running the numbers. You know, i got curious enough to google you just this morning. You've had a distinguished career that anyone would be rightly proud of. I really liked the idea of the "scroungenator". I was just out at Mud Lake a week or so ago. Do you know if those large caliber rounds littering the surface are depleted uranium armor piercing? My wife insists she saw a greenish glow on the dry lake bed after dark, do you know if is algae bloom, it had rained there in the last few days? Once again please don't take my comments as personal animosity directed at you or anyone else.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 11, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
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Are you willing to return to your personal stoneage or are you guys just a bunch of whiners of little belief in what you espouse?
well Rick, when you say stuff like the above quote from you, then it is pretty easy to see how some people could quite easily feel that kind of insult is indeed intentional, trite, and consistant with an antagonistic and dismissive attitude you seem to put forth
I have no idea why you call us a bunch of "whiners" that have "little belief in what you espouse"
who is whining?
and I can tell you that there is absolute confidence and conviction in the scientific research that is peer reviewed internationally prior to a conclusion being taken by PHD's like Ed and others posting here, amazing you conclude they have "little belief"
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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Apr 12, 2013 - 12:30am PT
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I'm sure Rick is anti-seatbelt as well. Look at the whining it took to get seat belts.....and those darn airbags! Just kiddin Rick!
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 12, 2013 - 12:37am PT
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Yes perhaps you are right Norton, i should tone down my rhetoric a few shades so as not to offend the more sensitive and well meaning among you.Maybe my tone was in reaction in to like kind criticism and derision directed towards myself and others i consider friends. If you look upstream with a dispassionate eye perhaps you'll see what i mean.
In any case let me extend my apologies to Base and Ed at least. I do appreciate them taking valuable time to keep us abreast of current science.Of course, i still reserve the right to make my own interpretations of that presented.
P.S. How the heck did you know that i was claustrophobic and never seat belt McHale. I do however insist that others traveling as passengers firmly buckle.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
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Apr 12, 2013 - 08:15am PT
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i was watching some jackass on youtube (literally)
and those guys would sneak up behind their pal
with a magnifying glass and burn a tattoo
on the innocent's unsuspecting neck.
it didn't take long for the victim
to writhe and spin around into a mock confrontation with
the solar aggressor...
so i wondered,
how could the magnification of sun intensity
be applied in the solar collection industry?
has it been explored?
Ed?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Apr 12, 2013 - 10:16am PT
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Thanks a lot Ed, Your ability to communicate clearly and simply on these things is beautiful and appreciated.
From what you say it does sound like some research here could yield useful results.
Norwegian the solar plant I mentioned in Nevada does just what you are saying. it uses mirrors for the "magnifying glass" Focusing the light on a Tower with salt that is heated and liquified by the concentrated sunlight and pumped to a heat exchange/boiler system for electrical generation.
The really cool thing about this system is that it can work for prolonged periods without sunlight once enough salt is liquified. Therefore producing electricity at night or on the occasional bad weather days. Something solar panel based systems cannot do.
Here is a similar plant in Spain.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 12, 2013 - 12:11pm PT
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I heard a bit on the radio yesterday that climate change is increasing the
speed of the jet stream and its attendant 'clear air turbulence'. CAT is
a big problem for the airlines and it is anticipated that many dollars and
much fuel will be spent to avoid it thereby contributing to the aggravation
of the situation.
It was research done at the U of Reading (England) if anyone is interested.
Here's The Guardian's article:
Bumpier flights to increase
"There is evidence that clear-air turbulence has already risen by 40-90% over Europe
and North America since 1958, but that is set to increase further due to global warming."
"The study, which used the same turbulence models that air traffic controllers
use every day, found that the frequency of turbulence on the many flights
between Europe and North America will double by 2050 and its intensity
increase by 10-40%."
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 12, 2013 - 07:07pm PT
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Dr. Rong your fellow researchers are frantically looking for you. You are in building 13 aren't you? If so, get back into the elevator and get off at that blank space between floors 12 and 14.We have a secret right wing nut job meeting in session now.All sorts of evil denial plots are being hatched. We are in urgent need of further elaboration of your global wetting theory as we see it as crucial in explanation of liberal attire.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 12, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
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Dr Rong here, reporting from the eleventh floor of the Koch bldng.
LOL hahahah
good one ....
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Apr 12, 2013 - 09:54pm PT
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Apr 12, 2013 - 10:08pm PT
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Ron,
My guess is that this is a local tectonic drop in the lake bottom. One of the lakes in the Tetons is also in an active zone and it has dead trees at a relatively deep depth. It is known that the bottom of the lake is falling, but the lake still fills up and is drained by the Snake River.
There are two types of sea level change:
1) Eustatic: This is a GLOBAL rise or fall in sea level
2)Local, or isostatic sea level changes.
It is a lake that you are talking about, not the ocean.
We geologists are keenly interested in eustatic sea level changes, because we can use these cycles to understand certain rocks better. I just got back from a conference on one of the Devonian shale gas shales, and it is pretty much agreed among industry that the shale took 34 million years to be deposited, and there are as many as 13 cycles or sequences in it. You can correlate these subtle beds around the country and target the horizontal leg of the wellbore to stay within a particular cycle because of rock properties that allow it to fracture more easily.
That is the way it is when geology decides where a few billion dollars of business will go. Christians aren't outside picketing.
A cool thing..
During the previous Pleistocene ice ages, the area of Hudson Bay was buried beneath a very thick ice sheet. The ice sheet actually depressed the continental crust beneath it. The ice has now retreated, and the floor of Hudson Bay is gradually coming up.
This is called Isostatic Rebound.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Apr 12, 2013 - 10:23pm PT
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Base,that lake in the tetons,its calledand i think theres a couple two three,its all on a huge fault.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 13, 2013 - 03:09am PT
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Amy Dansie ,working with UNR's desert research institute and/or the Nevada State Museum, authored a paper some time ago of the chronology of the paleoclimate affecting the ebb and flow of ancient Lake Lahontan's multiple stands from high to low. It was amazing how many times the Lake went from high stand shoreline (1100 feet deep) to the remnants we see today as Pyramid Lake, Walker Lake, and Topaz Lake, none of which are in excess of 300 feet in depth. A few of the more pronounced changes in depth occurred in the time space of just a few hundred years from high stand to low stand and vice a versa.That's some pretty catastrophic climate changes that are documented. The southwest and Sierra suffered a mega drought that ended some 500-600 years ago that was responsible for some fairly advanced cultures like that at Chaco Canyon collapsing. While it is likely the submerged forest is a graben it could also be evidence of that most recent mega drought.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Apr 13, 2013 - 12:13pm PT
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No. Not the submerged forest. That is a very well studied fault that it sits on. You can even measure the subsidence rates with these local water level changes.
I read a paper a while back about a big fault that runs directly through Tahoe. That entire part of the Sierra is full of active faults.
All a fault is, is a fracture in a block of rock, dividing it into two or more smaller blocks. Unlike an ordinary fracture, there is movement along the faults. One block is falling, one is sliding past, or one is being pushed over another. Those are the three basic forms of faults.
During the great Owens Valley Earthquake back in the 1800's you can still see the fault scarp. Fault scarps erode rather quickly, so if you see one, you can rest assured that it could still be active.
The continent is riddled with old faults that no longer move. I map them in the subsurface all of the time.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 13, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
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Yes Base i conceded it was most likely a graben in the last sentence of my post. But since neighboring ancient Lake Lahontan fluctuated 900 feet in depth in mere centuries drought can also have such effects. Hell, on Jan.1 1997 there was a storm that melted all the snowpack while dropping up to 40 inches of rain in the mountains around Tahoe. "When it rains it Pours", and sometimes with jet stream changes for decades long patterns.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Apr 21, 2013 - 02:08pm PT
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A major new paleoclimate synthesis study was published today in Nature Geoscience. I haven't yet had a chance to read the paper itself (will do so later), but the press release is here, and a set of FAQ are published here.
Darrell Kaufman summarizes the results:
The main conclusion of the study is that the most coherent feature in nearly all of the regional temperature reconstructions is a long-term cooling trend, which ended late in the 19th century, and which was followed by a warming trend in the 20th C. The 20th century in the reconstructions ranks as the warmest or nearly the warmest century in all regions except Antarctica. During the last 30-year period in the reconstructions (1971-2000 CE), the average reconstructed temperature among all of the regions was likely higher than anytime in at least ~1400 years. Interestingly, temperatures did not fluctuate uniformly among all regions at multi-decadal to centennial scales. For example, there were no globally synchronous multi-decadal warm or cold intervals that define a worldwide Medieval Warm Period or Little Ice Age.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Apr 21, 2013 - 03:37pm PT
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I met the enemy - he is us.
Sadly, I know people like this too. That sense of absolute certainty, immune to science.
OT, I got to drive this puppy across the state last week. A 5,000-year old Antarctic ice core.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Apr 21, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
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Mentioned upthread: "Continental-scale temperature variability during the past two millennia", Ahmed et al., in Nature Geoscience (2013) doi:10.1038/ngeo1797
Abstract
Past global climate changes had strong regional expression. To elucidate their spatio-temporal pattern, we reconstructed past temperatures for seven continental-scale regions during the past one to two millennia. The most coherent feature in nearly all of the regional temperature reconstructions is a long-term cooling trend, which ended late in the nineteenth century. At multi-decadal to centennial scales, temperature variability shows distinctly different regional patterns, with more similarity within each hemisphere than between them. There were no globally synchronous multi-decadal warm or cold intervals that define a worldwide Medieval Warm Period or Little Ice Age, but all reconstructions show generally cold conditions between ad 1580 and 1880, punctuated in some regions by warm decades during the eighteenth century. The transition to these colder conditions occurred earlier in the Arctic, Europe and Asia than in North America or the Southern Hemisphere regions. Recent warming reversed the long-term cooling; during the period ad 1971–2000, the area-weighted average reconstructed temperature was higher than any other time in nearly 1,400 years.
30-year-mean temperatures for the seven PAGES 2k Network regions, standardized to have the same mean (0) and standard deviation (1) over the period of overlap among records (AD 1190–1970). North America includes a shorter tree-ring-based and a longer pollen-based reconstruction. Dashed outlines enclose intervals of pronounced volcanic and solar negative forcing since AD 850 (see Methods). The lower panel shows the running count of number of individual proxy records by region. Data are listed in Supplementary Database S2.
http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ngeo1797.html
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 28, 2013 - 01:08am PT
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Back in Alaska it looks like if we are not entering a new ice age at least it's a return to good old fashioned winters.
In the 1990's Alaska was obviously warming, spring arriving earlier and winter later for many successive years. I just accepted the background noise which described the Arctic as ground zero for the most pronounced effects of Global Warming. Hell, i even voted for Gore in 2000.
Turns out we reached the peak of warming here in the El Nino year of 1998. Since then the mercury in the thermometer has been sinking. It seems statewide an average of 2.4 degrees f for the last twelve years. The sole area of the state bucking this cooling trend was the north coast-largely because of PDO. There is indication that this stalled out over the last couple years as the extent of late winter arctic sea ice is of historic proportions this year. Two years of unusually high late, late winter snowpack. It didn't even completely melt on the front range of The Chugach last year.
My question to the scientists frequenting this thread: How is this Arctic and sub Arctic cooling, northern european cooling, and simultaneous cooling or static temps in Antarctica explainable within the Global Warming theory. Is this a predicted blip? Can you promise Alaskans a warmer climate in the near future.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Apr 28, 2013 - 08:22am PT
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We had an average if not late winter here in the Finger
Lakes.Never mind that we had the hottest summer ever last year.
I find it very funny how some people forget the last 10 winters and then look at this past winter and say,so much for "climate change".[not meaning you Rick,just local observations]
I do believe enough data is present on this thread to make a good opinion on GW,thanks to those posting.
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