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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Had I rolled in I would have done just what they did - eyeball something and get on it. Anything that inspires this much whining and could be washed away by a couple of years of rain is a solid go at the place in my book.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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still festering after all these years...
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Greetings from the Centre of the Universe.
It is truly amazing to me how one bit of misinformation completely sets some of you guys off, when you have no idea at all what the actual situation is. At least there are a few cool heads above who suggest waiting until the facts are presented, which you will read below. It is also amusing that the most vehement responses come from those hiding under anonymous user names - how lame is that? Instead, why don't you come down to the bridge or walk up to the base and we'll have a beer and talk face to face? If you're going to talk sh|t about someone, at least have the balls to use your real name.
Anyway, here's what happened:
Kate R. walked by the base of Wings of Steel, and saw bolts and rivets up there. These bolts appear new, but they are not. Kate was wrong, and repeated her wrong assumption several times in the thread above. If she wasn't my friend I might even be pissed at her... {wink}
The fixed anchors that Kate R. sees are the bolts and rivets that Tom Kasper and I replaced according to Mark Smith's and Richard Jensen's specs back [I think] in spring 2006. We replaced old bolts with new, old rivets with new, on the first two pitches of the original start. We replaced old quarter-inch bolts with 3/8" bolts, but per Mark and Richard's request we used the same kind of "rivets" that they used in order to preserve the sportiness of the climb. "Our rivets were never intended to catch falls," they told us, "so please don't put in the usual Rawl split shafts which are too strong. Instead use what we used." I wasn't sure and remain unsure if this was the right thing to do or knott, but that's what we did because Richard and Mark asked us to.
I'm sorry, but I can't tell you what you call the damn things! They look like a little mushroom, and you drive a nail through the centre of the thing to seat it in a quarter-inch hole. The box said that they were rated to about 400 or 450 pounds in concrete, and I suspect they might be a shade stronger in granite. So we took out their old ones, patched the hole with epoxy, drilled new holes next to them and placed the same kind of rivet-thingy, but new ones. Anyone know what these things are called? For the record, you can drill out a quarter-inch hole to 3/8, but you can't reuse a quarter-inch hole with a quarter-inch rivet. Hence the patch and redrill.
So on my attempt to climb WoS, I basically cheat-sticked my way up the first pitch, because the hooking was far too hard for me. I've done some sporting hooking on routes like Jolly Roger and BUBS and so on, but the hooking on Wings of Steel is much much harder. I just couldn't do it. The rock is very smooth, and the route-finding desperate. On other routes, it's pretty obvious what you have to hook, but not on the slab/low-angle face of WoS, where virtually any nubbing is a potential hook placement, and almost none is bomber. Towards the end of the first pitch it is super-serious, with ankle-destroying ledges that my bone doctor told me I had best avoid henceforth.
After "climbing" the first pitch, we asked Ammon's brother Gabe for permission to jug Ammon's rope to the top of the second pitch so we could replace the bolts and rivets on that pitch, too, which we did. Ammon was on the route before us, having climbed the variation start, which Mark and Richard used to regain their highpoint after their first two pitches were chopped. The variation start comes in from the left, and joins the original start partway up the second pitch.
Anyway, that's how I left the route, and I haven't been back since. Too scary for me, mate. If you dig through the McTopo forum and the thousands of WoS posts, somewhere you will find a detailed description of our anchor replacements.
Anyway, I spoke to Ammon and Kait B. on the bridge today, and they told me that they have climbed and fixed the first two pitches on the original start. Ammon said the hooking was really tough [no kidding!] and if I remember correctly he told me it took him six hours to lead the first pitch.
The part that I really just couldn't figure out is the bulge in the first pitch that is only about thirty feet up. The rock is so incredibly smooth here - and much steeper than the rest of the slab - but Ammon told me he hooked it using a modified Talon hook that he had filed down to a sharper point. It took him quite a few falls to figure out. [Unlike Ammon, I am quite afraid to fall] So it's good to know my new bolts are doing their job and getting some use!
Ammon also told me he thought the top of the first pitch was even harder. I think I figured out those hook moves, but what I remember is the nasty ledges. He said if you blew it up there towards the end of the first you would take a long and serious fall.
I asked Ammon about the start of the second pitch, which Mark and Richard told me was the crux, where Mark [I think] took a huge Factor 2 fall past the belay, completely destroying the lead rope, curling it into coils because so much heat was dissipated through so little nylon. Ammon said he didn't find that bit too bad, but above the start of the second pitch, the hooking sequence was really difficult, requiring several long falls to figure out, and that pretty much every hook placement he made was from his topsteps. So damn hard climbing all the way up the original first two pitches, that's for sure.
Interestingly, Ammon said he thought the variation start was equally hard, which surprised me.
My friend Kate, who may need to see an eye doctor, sent me a text yesterday when Neil and I were enjoying a bath in the creek above Horsetail Falls after our 12-day ascent of Atlantic Ocean Wall. She told me people were writing stuff on McTopo about WoS, and I reminded her that I had replaced a bunch of bolts and rivets a few years earlier. She replied telling me she was 100 percent certain the bolts were new. As it turns out, she was 100 percent wrong, although neither of us knew this at the time of texting. Anyway, mistakes happen. I'm not beating her up [much].
So when I saw Kait B. and Ammon this aft, because of Kate R's text I asked them if they had added or replaced any gear, and they assured me they hadn't. So no drilling, no enhancing, no cheating, a legit ascent of the original first two pitches using the bolts and rivets that Tom and I replaced. The original first two pitches may be the hardest on the route, which bodes well for a complete second ascent. I'm sure rootin' for 'em!
Ammon told me they had 14 gallons of water up there, and I suggested they grab more because I think it's going to be pretty hot on the slab. It would be a darn shame for them to run out of water. They're going to be blasting tomorrow they said, so good on them! Ammon has brought some rivets [I forgot to ask him what kind] to replace the "batheads" that Mark and Richard drilled and filled with heads because they dropped their bag of rivets. I forgot to ask him if he brought 3/8" bolts to replace the old quarter-inchers, so we'll have to wait to ask him.
Certainly, if anyone knows what he's doing when climbing El Cap, and how to properly replace bolts and rivets, it's Ammon McNeely. So you've got the right man [and woman] on the job. I wish I could stick around to watch, but I've got to get home.
Man, I sure wish Tom Evans were still around to photograph their climb, but Dave Turner told me Tom was leaving today. Randy, are you going to get up there?? Hopefully someone will be around who can tell us how they're doing.
Anyway, hope this clears up the confusion.
Cheers and beers,
Pete
Go Kait and Ammon! Send that damn route!
P.S. One observation I made this spring when David and I were flailing and bailing in the snow from Lost World is the huge stream of water that flows down the centre of the Wings of Steel slab. It is particularly evident this spring with the wet weather, which Mark and Richard told me was similar to the conditions the year they made the first ascent. Remember how their detractors accused them of leaving a stream of piss and sh|t below their portaledge? Wankers.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Lot of keyboard warriors here hiding behind anonymous names. Go do some climbing negative nancy's.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Great! Problem solved. Let's move on to the next topic.
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Feverishly following this SA attempt....
Please keep us posted.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Thanks Pete.
Rant over.
Good fortunes to Ammon and Kait.
Over and out!
Sorry about the rock throwing Chief. It's pretty proud that you made a go at this BITD.
Prod.
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Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
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Hey Pete:
Thanks for the clear up, and sorry for the PITA, everyone. Still, I have been to the base of this route 15-20 times (on other approaches) in the last two years, every time struggling to even see the pro in the past two years. How I missed it so often with so may fatty 3/8 inch bolts in the first 50 feet is beyond me. I could never find the friggin route and had to spot it by locating the heads 15 feet up, which are now sandwiched between shiny bolts.
Anyway, sorry for the trouble, I care a lot about this route because its like one of those untouchable things that I don't feel like I could send, and I about fell over the first time I went to the base this year.
Apparently I think about it a little too much, and examine it with very, very bad eyes. :(
Back to lurking.
-Kate.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Okay, there are some facts, thanks Pete, NOW you all can get on with your detracting and wanking with an informed opinion.
Me? Well I'm wishing Kait and Ammon good luck, have fun and be safe (given the circumstances).
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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It seems to me there was
a monetary reward for the second ascent...
Good luck Ammon!
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Prod
Trad climber
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Ya Jefe,
I do recall a bounty threrad for the SA. Good luck finding that thread.
Prod.
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MisterE
Social climber
Bouldering the Gnar
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Awesome. Thanks for parting the bullsh#t, Pete.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Gene - awesome finding that thread! It will be great to see folks actually putting their money where their mouths were.
LOL that old posts can knott be deleted...
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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It'll be interesting to see how the people on the different sides of this discussion comport themselves upon the completion of Kait and Ammon's ascent and verdict.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Ammon and Kait are both skilled and experienced climbers, including many ascents of El Cap. A question - has either of them previously taken a position as to the grate WoS controversy? Heisenberg reaffirmed that what is seen depends in part on the viewpoint of the seer. Climbers who know about the route's history but have an open mind may "see" whatever they encounter quite differently than climbers who have already made up their minds - not forgetting that 30 years of weather, and intervening attempts, may have changed what's there anyway.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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I have definitely wondered about the "repeatability" of Wings of Steel, specifically because of the erosional effects of water running down the slab. But if Ammon can climb the first two pitches - of both starts - in good style, then the rest of the route should be climbable. It will be good of him to replace fixed drilled anchors, and also to correct the first ascensionists' mistakes where they had to place bat-heads.
After they dropped their bag of rivets, I am wondering why the FA-ists chose to put heads in the holes, instead of just drilling bathook holes? Was the rock overhanging at this point? I seem to remember it was late in the route, just before they joined Aquarian. I saw some stuff coming in from the right when I was on Aquarian last fall.
The viewpoint that Ammon has shared with me is that Wings of Steel is a sick hard bitchin' route, and I emphatically concur. If it were easy, it would have been repeated in its entirety by now.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Now we're talking, someone an objective SA by someone without old prejudices. I'll have to figure out how to deliver the goods I put up once the deed is done. Looking forward to the trip report. And given Ammon previously said it wasn't his cup of tea:
Ammon: "From what I have seen, the climbing is very challenging, BUT, it is very boring as well (to me). It took me a couple of hours to figure out where to go on the second pitch. I was standing in my aiders for twenty-five minutes trying to figure out what to do. To me, that is boring. From what I did see on the first two pitches was: It is NOT a bolt ladder like I previously thought. They used every possible features to climb the slab. No lack of balls, either. I took some pretty good rides and was impressed with how far they made their run-outs."
Something about it must have nagged on him in the intervening months for him to get back on now.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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I offered Kait and Ammon a carry, but they said they had things well in hand. Ammon and Kait, beer and pizza from me this fall!
If you found an edge the size of a dime more than a few times on the first pitch, you have better eyes and fingers than me. Those edges are scary-sick-microscopic-insane. Gads, getting sweaty hands just thinking about it. Where's my chalkbag? Oh right, I don't own one any more.
Mark and Richard agree with the idea above regarding rivets not being able to hold falls. However such rivets might well hold falls when clipped using a Yates Scream Aid, which deploys at a constant force of about 275 pounds.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Well, whatever the hell is still left there on the rock, enough of it is left there to climb. At least by Ammon. Surely not me!
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