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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Jul 29, 2008 - 09:47pm PT
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Share a copy???? Buy a few..... Rokjoxs' lungs are paying for it.
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2008 - 01:57pm PT
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Lois posted: "...I'd say it is high time to wrap it up and go to press."
So if I understand you, you don't really mind if a historical book is incomplete and incorrect just as long as it gets into your hands. Again, this isn't a novel like those before it.
When the book goes to print it will contain only facts, not speculation. All of the facts will have been researched and documented. If there is a story that someone tells from a second person's point of view, it will be researched as well. If it can't be supported with fact it won't be published.
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Strider
Trad climber
one of god's mountain temples....
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Jul 31, 2008 - 02:26pm PT
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Awww, come on Licky! If you don't included the un-supported, second hand stories then it won't be any fun!
-n
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Jul 31, 2008 - 02:39pm PT
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"When the book goes to print it will contain only facts..."
That would be impressive considering how much information must be first-hand accounts told to you by individuals with fading memories and biased points of view.
Still, I eagerly await the book and will buy a copy now or in ten years, whenever it becomes available :)
Dave
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Jul 31, 2008 - 03:32pm PT
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Nah licky, take the time to do it right.
But don't be offended if me and Lois start writing our reviews, right now. Har!
..It's a family thing, she reads a chapter, then throws the book down to me on the bottom bunk, eventually I toss it back up.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jul 31, 2008 - 04:00pm PT
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"I had to steal food and can and all the other things we did back then, but I am sure not proud of it. Somebody please explain it to me. Why do modern climber think that what we did was so romantic, old school or core. It's a bunch of jive, it sucked, we didn't have any money or rich parents and did what we had to do."
Maybe when I was in my twenties I would have thought it "romantic", as you say... But being in my mid-thirties, the question begs to be asked - What was forcing you to not go get a job like regular folks? You know, leave the valley, get a gig, climb when you can, etc?
I'm just curious. Doing what you did was a choice, not something that was forced on you. You made the choice to steal. So, it seems to me that, unless I'm missing something, you are the one romanticizing what you did...
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Jul 31, 2008 - 04:15pm PT
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Interesting perspective.
Seems more like salvage, to me
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jul 31, 2008 - 04:58pm PT
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Very interesting perspective indeed. I was on my own and paying rent from age 17,
perhaps I could have been a dirtbag in Yosemite instead? I did knott like being broke,
so I got a !@#$%^& job!!
Again Licky (and again and again), take your time on the book, and remember that people in hell want ice-water...
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jul 31, 2008 - 05:14pm PT
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I'm just pointing out and playing devil's advocate... I can totally see myself, or any young person in the same situation. Hell, even after I'd grown up a bit, I left a great job with great benefits, pay and vacation and lived there for quite a while myself. Although I saved a chunk of money before I did... But it's not like I can't see/feel the draw...
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wombat
Trad climber
NY, NY
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Jul 31, 2008 - 06:11pm PT
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the bits of this story that have come out are very interesting and often highly entertaining despite the unfortunate ends to some of the individual's tales.
One has to wonder if the "truth" is in fact obtainable in this story. Given the way the mind works, even in the best of cases, after this length of time, the "truth" will be very elusive beast as many of the sources will have told, heard and retold the same stories to the same people. as we repeat stories, the little changes become fact in our memories. and given that this affair includes drugs, death, theft and other less than admirable facets, there will always be a subtle and even unconscious bias to justify one's actions. not even addressing that many of the minds involved were partaking of the loot and other substances and that they are climbers, and great ones at that so they are clearly somewhat off to start with :)
I think that JL's collections of stories and remembrances will hold as much truth as this. it is still a worthwhile endeavor and I would certainly read it. best of Luck.
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2008 - 12:34am PT
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Wombat. You are problably correct when it comes to the stories that the climbers and others that made their way up to the lake. However there is so much more to this story than that part. The rest is actually quite researchable, down to reports and documents that support a lot of the stories.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Opportunists, that what they were. Scavengers? Maybe. Thieves or looters? No way. The kids who made it up there to the gold rush were taking advantage of an opportunity to retrieve what the Park Service was sure to confiscate. To leave it there was to waste it.
Licky, how about the switched trail signs down at Illiouette Junction? To me, that was classic! I wonder how many people were fooled!
I recall how “crash buds” would easily flame-up with little notice. I’m not sure if that was because of the fuel still in it or its composition following the drying process (often done in Curry dorms).
There must be an endless stream of true stories related to this event, so take your time to get the best of them.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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My memory of Lodestar Lightning was that it was DIFFICULT to keep lit.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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I wonder if any of that pot made it to the midwest, where I lived. '77 was, unfortunately, one on my peak usage years.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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I'm jsut amazed I know people who were old enough to be smoking pot in '77! hahaha Buncha old dudes here! :)
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Speak for yourself! I was only 15 years old in 1977.
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Hey Licky
You are doing good. We talk about this before: "History"
Correct information is what is all about. History gets distorted for some political/religious reasons beyond our control.
Get it correct and if you need more time no biggie.
As for Jack wanted to know if you had the 1978 "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" published by the American Alpine Club. Sure you have covered bases already. But have a copy if you need it.
Will be posting photo of Jack soon. The funny one, might be a break from all the threads.
Looking forward to the book. I think it will one of those "Best Sellers/Classic" non-fictional books.
Well for at least a month, maybe two.
Thinking you should have two: The story itself and then the "New Gold Rush" that had to with the climbers as another.
No matter which way you will be read.
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Ricardo Carlos
Trad climber
Off center, CO.
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"I had to steal food and can and all the other things we did back then, but I am sure not proud of it. Somebody please explain it to me. Why do modern climber think that what we did was so romantic, old school or core. It's a bunch of jive, it sucked, we didn't have any money or rich parents and did what we had to do."
Maybe when I was in my twenties I would have thought it "romantic", as you say... But being in my mid-thirties, the question begs to be asked - What was forcing you to not go get a job like regular folks? You know, leave the valley, get a gig, climb when you can, etc?
I'm just curious. Doing what you did was a choice, not something that was forced on you. You made the choice to steal. So, it seems to me that, unless I'm missing something, you are the one romanticizing what you did...
Nef
It was a choice many but not all made it.
Flat broke in the Valley I once borrowed ten dollars From Dick C. Drove to San Diego worked three days and made enough to come back for another month.
I never scarfed, Went canning , dined and dashed or stole .
Well not counting
$150 dinners at the Four Seasons with a very small bill and big tip .
Free sundays and floats sweet shop (never asked for)
Employee discounts 30-40% at the general store.(never asked for)
Two salad bowls from the Four Seasons and a master key to showers. They were a gift but I may have hinted.
A Curry name tag with my real name. It helped in employee showers and with rangers.
(Before I became a renter)
I paid rent to Curry as a ghost roommate.(Oh I asked)
My first night as a renter was the evening before the Mammoth Earth Quakes.
Five guys and seventy gals and a pissed house mother watched the three story behind the general store shake .
Friday mornings in a pump house in Foresta I could sew four to six packs and sell them by four in the afternoon. I made as much money then a week as I lived on my first month in the valley.
It kept my thirteen year old brother and I feed for another week.
Larry Z could bum a quick $100 Sunday afternoon from turons telling them he lost his wallet and needed gas money to get back to school work or what ever.
Another guy Stole ice boxes from pines and rivers camp grounds.
When asked at the Awhanne if we were staying at the hotel Dick C. replied doesn’t everyone.
A few weeks later she asks me if he was really staying at the Awhanne as she saw him canning.
I even heard one climber lived in the judges basement with his 16 year old daughter. After all 16 will get you 20 unless you are on a military base or in a National Park.
Who said it was not romantic. What 2-3 thousand female employees, if that’s not reeking of romance it was at least lust.
I have a fine assortment of Romanic memories many include climbing.
Tomorrow I will hike into the Park RMNP to make more memories climbing Sunday. Back to the topic the first crash weed I smoked was with a ranger after climbing , she was supprised I had not heard about the weed. I headed to the Valley the next day , one day before the Feds.
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Double D
climber
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Piton Ron, "My memory of Lodestar Lightning was that it was DIFFICULT to keep lit." You must not have had a mustache at the time. The flare ups were akin to personal firework displays! Maybe it was still in that wet stage but the fuel ignitions at the mid-pinner drift were legondary... sort of a Loadstar Branding campaign.
But... I didn't inhale sir.
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Amanda Bircheff
climber
CA
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Aug 12, 2008 - 02:56am PT
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Hey Licky, If I can get a first hand account from my dad ( and I know he has one 'cause I've heard the story many times ) I'll pass it along.
Amanda Bircheff
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