2018 Elections update.

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dirtbag

climber
Nov 19, 2018 - 08:39am PT
And that’s the other side of the coin.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Nov 19, 2018 - 01:38pm PT
I wouldn't say EdwardT comes off as middle of the road, more like right of center. I consider my philosophically centrist, and probably left of center compared to the average American socially, and probably still centrist economically. It's interesting where I think he is more left than me.

//End Political divide - No clue. Maybe corporate, religious and social leaders get together and negotiate a plan to unite this country. Then tell the politicians to play ball.
Top issues:
End the polemic rhetoric. quit catering to the fringes.
Enact law overturning Citizens United.
End gerrymandering. non-partisan districts/boundaries, nationwide.//

I think ending gerrymandering could help here. As much as constitutionally feasible I'd like to see districts evenly split red/blue so candidates would need to be moderate to win. With gerrymandering they make highly concentrated left and right districts where the left/right wingers win. These are often the people who don't compromise, don't see that the govt. is supposed to work for everyone, and engage in terrible rhetoric.

//Low wages Incrementally raise minimum wages to a reasonable level. Maybe $20/hr by 2028. Partial increases for workers under age 21.//

I think if we compare minimum wage to inflation we get a reasonable level. I'm not in favor or paying fast food workers the same as EMTs as could happen with a high minimum wage. It's also tough because minimum wage should be different in San Francisco compared to Bakersfield.

Illegal immigration - Fix the damn problem and then obey the laws. Dreamers get a shot at citizenship. Illegals register with the government. Allowed to obtain green card, with strict rules for maintaining green card status. Allowed to apply for citizenship. In the back of the line. End chain migration. Seal the border. Penalized governments providing sanctuary.

One area I agreed with Dubya Bush was a guest worker program. Take the underground economy for cheap labor that exists and helps our country our into the open. Just because someone comes here and works doesn't mean they need to become a Citizen, but they should have rights and pay taxes.

Affordable healthcare - Obamacare was a good, but flawed, step in the right direction. Don't repeal it. Fix it!

Agreed. We kind of screwed ourselves in this country with private health insurance typically provided by employers. It's going to be a bigger and bigger hindrance to us competing in a global economy with countries with more efficient systems.

//Environment - Continue to raise CAFE standards. Harsher rules for polluters - can you say coal ash spill? Raise fuel taxes 20 cents/yr for five hears. Two thirds for infrastructure. Remainder for green energy.//

Agreed.

Guns - Register all guns. Required gun safety course certification. Additional training and background checks for "collectors". Get rid of semi-automatic weapons. Criminalize possession of converted semiautomatics.

This is to the left of me. Practically we'll never register the millions of guns out there. It would be much easier to track ammunition and ammunition supply sales. I'm okay with most guns not being registered. I'm okay with semi-autos. I'm for the ability to own most types of guns including fully automatics IF we do a much better job keeping them out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. Universal background checks for all gun sales. Stiff penalties for providing a gun that was used in a crime. Guns with replaceable clips (assault rifles) and hand guns should have mandatory training required for purchase and stiffer background check requirements and only be allowed in certain places (e.g. I'm okay with a full automatic assault rifle out in the dessert, but not in cities).
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Nov 19, 2018 - 02:03pm PT
I think ending gerrymandering could help here. As much as constitutionally feasible I'd like to see districts evenly split red/blue so candidates would need to be moderate to win. With gerrymandering they make highly concentrated left and right districts where the left/right wingers win. These are often the people who don't compromise, don't see that the govt. is supposed to work for everyone, and engage in terrible rhetoric.

How about non-partisan boundaries? Use natural boundaries, legal boundaries (city limits) and/or algorithms. End the manipulation of boundaries to benefit the party in charge.

One big problem I have with gerrymandering is it creates very partisan districts, which results in hardliner representatives.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Nov 19, 2018 - 02:39pm PT
Gerrymandering - again, there is a long tradition of this in America on both sides. I suppose an algorithm could be written that would align districts every ten years based on an agreed-to formula.

Guns - I would agree to many restrictions that were also imposed upon police, e.g. magazine capacity, etc. Again, like Fritz, I prefer revolvers and lever or bolt-action rifles. I do own a couple of semi-autos, but I'd give 'em up if the police were required to do the same. Maybe a ban on hi-capacity semi-autos in exchange for lifting most or all restrictions on more "traditional" types of arms like revolvers, shotguns, lever/bolt rifles?

Also, I've often wondered why civilians and police are free to carry hollow-pointed ammunition--but soldiers are forbidden to do the same. IMO, hollow-pointed ammunition is nothing more than a substitute for poor marksmanship.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Nov 19, 2018 - 02:48pm PT
Deeeep breath there, Tut. Someone's been watching too much MSNBC again.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Nov 19, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
The status quo works for you, but not for 90% of the people.
It's not in my financial interest to change the status quo, but it just hurts seeing how so many people in our country are deprived of basic human needs.

90%?? Wow, I had no idea. Please explain. Sorry, Moose, but I think your numbers are the product of Koolaid.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Nov 19, 2018 - 03:01pm PT
methinks

Just because Shakespeare and Thoreau used it doesn't mean you ought to. In fact, please stop. It makes you sound dumber than you already are.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Nov 19, 2018 - 03:38pm PT
You have a gun fetish. There is no need for semi-auto weapons in civilian hands.

Insulting someone is always a good strategy... Semi-auto can be very advantageous for hunting and target shooting. Plus they are fun to shoot. I believe in the freedom of law abiding people to own what they want with reasonable restrictions to keep them out of the wrong hands and out of the wrong places and very stiff penalties when they are misused for everyone involved. That's what America is about IMO. Taking a hard line stance one way or the other does nothing to advance any reasonable compromises.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 19, 2018 - 04:55pm PT
Lock her up!!!

Ivanka Trump used a personal email account to send hundreds of emails about government business last year


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ivanka-trump-used-a-personal-email-account-to-send-hundreds-of-emails-about-government-business-last-year/2018/11/19/6515d1e0-e7a1-11e8-a939-9469f1166f9d_story.html?utm_term=.88143b8af281
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Nov 19, 2018 - 05:20pm PT
Insulting someone is always a good strategy... Semi-auto can be very advantageous for hunting and target shooting. Plus they are fun to shoot. I believe in the freedom of law abiding people to own what they want with reasonable restrictions to keep them out of the wrong hands and out of the wrong places and very stiff penalties when they are misused for everyone involved. That's what America is about IMO. Taking a hard line stance one way or the other does nothing to advance any reasonable compromises.
I agree on the insulting stuff not being a good strategy but after that I disagree.
Sure semi-automatic guns are fun and advantageous for hunting. But I think the fact they are the preferred choice of mass murderers outweighs that. in the same way that the dangers of explosives outweigh the fact that they are also fun (way more fun than guns imo) and can also be advantageous for hunting (fishing really)
Lituya

Mountain climber
Nov 19, 2018 - 05:30pm PT
Lituya,

Based on the publications (backed by the polls):

2 out of 3 people want gun control

80% want an immigration reform

78% want our troops back home (stop the wars)

over 80% want healthcare for all

etc.

Since some of those ideas don't overlap, it's easy to see that at least 90% of the population is not satisfied with their representatives.

Sorry Moose, but you just made these up. And even if there are "polls" to back up what you claim, the answers you provide are nebulous. For example, "80% want immigration reform." Ok, in what form? Hard-line? Open borders? Somewhere in between? I suspect yes. "80% want healthcare for all." Well, who wouldn't! Single payer? I doubt your 80% number holds. Might not even hold at 50. "2 out of 3 want gun control." Show me the numbers. And the question that was asked.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Nov 19, 2018 - 05:33pm PT
Gun control support surges in polls


*Roughly 2 in 3 Americans now say gun control laws should be made more strict in the wake of the murder of 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, according to a number of polls, including a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll that shows support for stricter gun laws among registered voters at 68 percent, compared with just 25 percent who oppose stricter gun laws.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/28/gun-control-polling-parkland-430099
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Nov 19, 2018 - 05:39pm PT
Seventy percent of Americans support 'Medicare for all' in new poll

A vast majority — 70 percent — of Americans in a new poll supports "Medicare for all," also known as a single-payer health-care system.

The Reuters–Ipsos survey found 85 percent of Democrats said they support the policy along with 52 percent of Republicans.

The move to abolish Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) was also opposed by a majority of respondents. Seventy percent of Republicans said they opposed abolishing the 15-year-old agency, while Democrats said they were evenly split on the issue, with roughly 44 percent in favor of abolishing it and 44 percent saying it should remain.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/403248-poll-seventy-percent-of-americans-support-medicare-for-all
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 19, 2018 - 05:42pm PT
Since when does the will of the people override the NRA's gun lobby?
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Nov 19, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
i think it was clear when moose said 'an' immigration reform it was open ended.
while some may be left biased, and the gun control poll may have lost a little support as time wanes (there will be another parkland don't worry) i assure you none of them are made up.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 19, 2018 - 05:46pm PT
Troops at U.S.-Mexican border to start coming home
By WESLEY MORGAN 11/19/2018 04:15 PM EST Updated 11/19/2018 05:36 PM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/19/troops-us-mexico-border-come-home-1005510

The 5,800 troops who were rushed to the southwest border amid President Donald Trump’s pre-election warnings about a refugee caravan will start coming home as early as this week — just as some of those migrants are beginning to arrive.

Democrats and Republicans have criticized the deployment as a ploy by the president to use active-duty military forces as a prop to try to stem Republican losses in this month’s midterm elections.



Gosh.....ya think??
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Nov 19, 2018 - 05:59pm PT
I think the fact they are the preferred choice of mass murderers outweighs that.

I respect your opinion, but I feel that if some idiot does something wrong with something it shouldn't affect my ability to have that thing if I'm going to use it responsibly. Timothy McVeigh used fertilizer to make a bomb to kill hundreds in OKC. They shouldn't stop selling fertilizer, but if they want to put regulations in place that say if you buy over a certain amount you have to get a license by proving you are a farmer I'm fine with that. If we regulate semi-autos to say you have to have a semi-auto license and that requires passing a gun safety course, and an extensive background check including mental health, I think that's a good idea. In California you have to basically do that to get a concealed carry permit. And I think that's a good idea. I think it should be expanded to if you are carrying a gun in a public place, or you have a handgun (which are all pretty much semi-automatic) or a semi-automatic long gun.

Basically I'm not willing to give up my (and my fellow law abiding citizens) rights and freedoms because other people are insane or do stupid things. However I'm in favor of much better regulations, the more dangerous the weapon or object the more tight the regulations.

There's plenty of people who see rock climbing and think it should be illegal. They say climbers can get killed, drop rocks on people, or need a rescue (usually paid by tax dollars and a risk to the rescuers), or damage the rock in public parks. They don't need to rock climb. Why should we allow it? Cause it's freedom baby yeah.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Nov 19, 2018 - 06:04pm PT
I respect your opinion, but I feel that if some idiot does something wrong with something it shouldn't affect my ability to have that thing if I'm going to use it responsibly. Timothy McVeigh used fertilizer to make a bomb to kill hundreds in OKC. They shouldn't stop selling fertilizer, but if they want to put regulations in place that say if you buy over a certain amount you have to get a license by proving you are a farmer I'm fine with that. If we regulate semi-autos to say you have to have a semi-auto license and that requires passing a gun safety course, and an extensive background check including mental health, I think that's a good idea. In California you have to basically do that to get a concealed carry permit. And I think that's a good idea. I think it should be expanded to if you are carrying a gun in a public place, or you have a handgun (which are all pretty much semi-automatic) or a semi-automatic long gun.
Quite a few of us would consider that the gun control we're after. Sure we would prefer a ban on assault rifles but ANY MOVEMENT AT ALL would help. We wanted single payer, but were happy that we at least got the ACA as hopefully a starting point.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Nov 19, 2018 - 06:08pm PT
A vast majority — 70 percent — of Americans in a new poll supports "Medicare for all," also known as a single-payer health-care system.

"George Mason University found it would lead to $32.6 trillion increase in federal spending over a 10-year period. The study’s author, Charles Blahous, wrote in The Wall Street Journal earlier this month that even doubling taxes would not cover the bill for a single-payer health-care system."


I wonder if respondents were informed about the cost? The devil's in the details. And libs love to skip over those pesky details. BTW, Medicare expansion is certainly NOT the same thing as "single-payer."


"The new Reuters poll also showed that a majority of Americans supports free college tuition. Forty-one percent of Republicans said they supported the policy, pollsters found, compared with 79 percent of Democrats."

FREE STUFF!!
Lituya

Mountain climber
Nov 19, 2018 - 06:11pm PT
Since when does the will of the people override the NRA's gun lobby?

It doesn't. Unless they amend the Constitution. Good luck.
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