Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
|
|
|
Aug 15, 2018 - 08:06am PT
|
Toker Villain: When someone is described as; visionary, ethereal, eccentric, that it is actually code for mental instability.
Perhaps. Genius is often “way out there.” Why might that be? Typical understanding of reality is invariably traditional. The only way to create / innovate new things (views, products, methods) is to get off the beaten track. Most often that looks imprudent, a little crazy.
I’m not so sure it’s about mental instability. The effect of genius often means instability, but that refers to social and economic systems. Joseph Schumpeter (an Austrian economist in the 1880s) called it, “creative destruction.” Almost everyone in Silicon Valley wants to create new market spaces around their ideas (which could put them in the catbird’s seat).
Check out wiki on Schumpeter; it’s a good write-up and may inform you of some of the remarkable understanding he seemed to have had. Very prescient.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Aug 15, 2018 - 10:16am PT
|
The SEC, despite Tooth’s insider info, has already issued subpoenas.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Aug 15, 2018 - 10:28am PT
|
I'm buying popcorn.
|
|
August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
|
|
|
Aug 15, 2018 - 12:17pm PT
|
The only way to create / innovate new things (views, products, methods) is to get off the beaten track.
Ok. I keep hearing this about Musk. And I keep asking, on this forum and another one that I browse, what has Musk done (since perhaps Paypal) that is innovative. And I never get an answer besides some hand waving visionary thing.
He wasn't the first private space company. He wasn't the first all-electric car. He wasn't the first to use robots in manufacturing.
As far as I know, he was the first to bring an all-electric, sports car to market. Credit for that. Although given the amount of torque that electric motors can generate, that strikes me as fairly obvious.
And then he has a bunch of adolescent fantasies (that aren't original) about Martian colonies and hyper loops.
As far as I can tell, visionary is another name for a charismatic salesman that knows how to create a fanatical following with a chic brand.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Aug 15, 2018 - 12:32pm PT
|
As far as I know, he was the first to bring an all-electric, sports car to market.
Not even close. My friends Allan Cocconi and Dave Sivertsen of AC Propulsion built their tzero in 1997. It was primarily a test bed for the technology they sold to many of the big companies. While it only did 0-60 in 4 seconds you could also do a 95% charge in only an hour.
here’s a link to just a few of their patents:
https://patents.justia.com/assignee/ac-propulsion-inc
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Aug 16, 2018 - 06:25pm PT
|
Reuters:
Whistleblower accuses Tesla of spying on employees at Gigafactory: attorney
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - An employee fired from Tesla Inc's (TSLA.O) Nevada battery factory filed a whistleblower complaint with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, accusing the company of spying on employees and failing to act after learning that a Mexican cartel may be dealing drugs inside the plant, his attorney said on Thursday.
A former member of Tesla’s internal investigations team, Karl Hansen, filed a tips, complaints and referrals form to the SEC about the Gigafactory on Aug. 9, Hansen’s attorney Stuart Meissner said in a news release. Whistleblowers can receive 10 percent to 30 percent of penalties the SEC collects.
Tesla said it took the allegations that Hansen brought to the electric car maker seriously and investigated.
“Some of his claims are outright false. Others could not be corroborated,” Tesla said in the statement.
The SEC declined comment.
The complaint sent to the SEC comes amid intense focus on the company and Chief Executive Elon Musk, whose tweets about taking the company private last week set off a scramble to determine whether he violated securities law in stating that funding for the deal was “secured.”
Hansen alleged that Tesla, at the direction of Musk, installed surveillance equipment at the Gigafactory outside Reno, Nevada to eavesdrop on the personal cellphones of employees while at work, according to Meissner.
Hansen also claims that Tesla did not disclose to investors that thieves stole $37 million in copper and other raw materials during the first half of 2018, according to his attorney.
Hansen alleges Tesla failed to disclose that it received written notice from the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration about a Tesla employee possibly engaged in selling cocaine and crystal methamphetamine from the Nevada factory on behalf of a Mexican drug cartel, according to Meissner who did not release the whistleblower filing he said his client made to the SEC.
Reuters could not reach Hansen for comment.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Hope y’all got a gud store of popcorn!
|
|
tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
|
|
|
Aug 16, 2018 - 10:18pm PT
|
“Mr. Hansen’s allegations were taken very seriously when he brought them forward. Some of his claims are outright false. Others could not be corroborated, so we suggested additional investigative steps to try and validate the information he had received second-hand from a single anonymous source. Because we wanted to be sure we got this right, we made numerous attempts to engage further with Mr. Hansen to understand more about what he was claiming and the work that he did in reaching his conclusions. He rejected each of those attempts, and to date has refused to speak with the company further. It seems strange that Mr. Hansen would claim that he is concerned about something happening within the company, but then refuse to engage with the company to discuss the information that he believes he has.”
From Tesla
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Aug 17, 2018 - 06:16am PT
|
reutets:
Tesla's Model 3 margins could be dented by costly powertrain: UBS
(Reuters) - Electric carmaker Tesla Inc's (TSLA.O) premium Model 3 sedan will not produce better profit margins than a conventional BMW (BMWG.DE) and the company could actually lose $6,000 on every base model due to higher costs for the powertrain, according to an analyst at UBS.
Tesla’s shares were down about 3 percent at $325 in premarket trade on Friday.
The company is banking on its Model 3 to ensure future profitability. The base model is $35,000, but car buyers can upgrade to a $49,000 version, which has a longer range battery and high end trim.
UBS said the powertrain - a component crucial to Model 3's architecture, cost $950 higher than a previous forecast, but still better compared to General Motors Co's (GM.N) Chevy Bolt.
“While Tesla’s powertrain was better than peers in terms of cost per kWh and performance, their lead was not as large as we would have expected,” analyst Colin Langan said in a research note titled “Is Tesla Revolutionary or Evolutionary?”
Langan added that the cell cost at $148/kWh is well above Tesla’s guidance of below $100/kWh ending 2018.
He said the powertrain modules are in-house designed and built by Tesla, which is enabling it to move earlier with new technologies.
The Model 3 UBS Evidence Lab disassembled was $49,000, which included the 75 kWh battery and the high end trim. The model is expected to have a factory variable margin of about 29 percent and a gross margin of about 18 percent.
According to the note, Tesla’s gross margin comes in at 18 percent for a high-end Model 3, while the BMW 330i records 21 percent. The powertrain for Tesla’s Model 3 costs $17,827, more than double BMW spends on the component.
“With these economics, we expect the $35k base Model 3 to lose about $6k/car,” Langan said.
On Thursday, Evercore analysts said Tesla is on its way to make 8,000 Model 3 cars per week even as it burns more cash, following their visit to the electric carmaker’s California facility.
Musk, who shocked markets last week after tweeting a proposal to take the company private, gave a wide-ranging and emotional interview to the New York Times on Thursday on the company’s troubles and the personal burdens he has suffered running the company.
Reporting by Nivedita Balu in Bengaluru; Editing by Bernard Orr
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
So now he’s pulled out the Sympathy Card?
|
|
10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
|
|
|
Aug 17, 2018 - 08:05am PT
|
Musk, who shocked markets last week after tweeting a proposal to take the company private, gave a wide-ranging and emotional interview to the New York Times on Thursday on the company’s troubles and the personal burdens he has suffered running the company.
lol
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Aug 17, 2018 - 08:20am PT
|
TSLA DOWN 7.8% at $309
Dem short doods are lookin’ pretty happy, and prescient.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Aug 17, 2018 - 12:41pm PT
|
How’s that popcorn holding out?
TSLA down 9.35% to $304!
Put a smiley face on that, Tooth!
|
|
August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
|
|
|
Aug 17, 2018 - 12:57pm PT
|
what has Musk done that is innovative?
Yea, if only NASA had ever had the vision to make a reusable rocket!
|
|
tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
|
|
|
Aug 17, 2018 - 03:09pm PT
|
Not to get anyone riled up but if you post a stock price and tauntingly call me out like a preschooler in the schoolyard , man up and quote what I said about it upthread so everyone can laugh at your foolishness.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Aug 17, 2018 - 03:38pm PT
|
man up and quote what I said about it upthread.
If I had seen anything relevant or meaningful I would surely do so,
but at this point whatever you said will look better in the post mortem.
|
|
tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
|
|
|
Aug 17, 2018 - 03:42pm PT
|
Quote what I said about stock price - unless it doesn’t help in painting the picture you want to of me, or of picking a fight...
|
|
couchmaster
climber
|
|
|
Aug 17, 2018 - 06:04pm PT
|
We should stop with he anger, accusations and finger pointing. It is what it is.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Aug 17, 2018 - 06:07pm PT
|
I’m happy to have a civil discussion but I’m not a mind reader. If you have a point to make
then make it, like an adult, unless yer just channeling yer hero.
|
|
tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
|
|
|
Aug 17, 2018 - 06:19pm PT
|
Oh please. You quote a stock price and ask me to comment on it. I already had. You were just being argumentative for the sake of it instead of following a cohesive conversation/thread. Since you are unable (or more likely, unwilling for the reasons I stated) to do so I said that I thought stock price was overvalued and that I owned none of it.
You argued that you need to be a mind reader to quote what I said about stock price. After what you just posted. 🤦♂️
|
|
August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
|
|
|
Aug 17, 2018 - 08:33pm PT
|
The shuttle? You forget how the shuttle got to orbit? Are you a maroon?
NASA developed a partially re-usable rocket.
Guess what? Space X developed a partially re-usable rocket. Space X is not re-using all of the pieces, only the first stage.
And I'm not comparing NASA's cost effectiveness against Space X. Musk has a good engineering team (and an absolutely out of this world marketing team).
Landing and re-using part of a rocket is nothing new.
It is an incremental/evolutionary change.
Not a visionary/revolutionary change.
The Space Shuttle was far more revolutionary than the Falcon 9.
|
|
tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
|
|
|
Aug 18, 2018 - 04:49am PT
|
NASA developed a partially re-usable rocket.
Guess what? Space X developed a partially re-usable rocket.
Nasa developed a re-usable payload (Shuttle).
Guess what? Space X developed a re-usable rocket (Falcon). And continues to use a reusable payload (Dragon)
There, fixed that for you.
Also, there are two other parts sent up. Fairings and second stage, both of which have plans for recovery/reuse (Mr. Steven, etc)
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!