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10b4me
Ice climber
Wishes-He-Was-In-Arizona
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Aug 16, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
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Lori, Agnew Meadows is a very popular area. Unless he had a pre existing medical condition,
It would be hard to get injured at that location.
btw, did he have any previously reported medical
conditions?
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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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Aug 16, 2013 - 10:18pm PT
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No medical issues...
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Aug 16, 2013 - 10:41pm PT
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I'm uncertain of some facts. In particular:
He had been with friends in the area, climbing & hiking. Are there details about what they climbed? That might help eliminate search areas; if he had climbed a particular peak, for instance, he would likely seek new terrain. I know he went to Clyde Minaret solo.
Did the friends he had been climbing/hiking with prior return to Mammoth to help determine exactly what gear of his was missing?
What happened to the group from PA who came to search? Their info could help others who might want to search.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Aug 16, 2013 - 10:55pm PT
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looking at something in the center lower section of the glacier at the center of the image
Note that Cragman passed below this area in his recent TR and scanned with binoculars from their camp site. However it is not clear whether he had a clear view of this point due to the shape of intervening terrain.
I just re-read his TR (interesting how he mentions sensing presence up there...). It appears to me that the point we are looking at may not have been visible from their line of travel, based upon his posted picture looking in the direction of the glacier on Banner.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Aug 16, 2013 - 11:49pm PT
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N. Face. . Banner Peak. Can't make out anything.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Aug 17, 2013 - 12:11am PT
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What we are looking at is higher res than can be posted here. However we were not able to get close enough to get photos comparable to Tom Evans, due to our speed and turbulent air where we were sometimes gaining or losing hundreds of feet of elevation in moments, so had to leave ourselves some breathing space.
Edit: Just got off the phone with mattyj, who is now in Mammoth and planning a trip up Banner and Ritter starting tomorrow morning in a party of four. He thinks there may be a clear view of this point using good binoculars from the summit of Banner.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Aug 17, 2013 - 12:24am PT
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I tend to follow the road MOST traveled.
The most obvious approach to the Ritter/ Banner area is Agnew Meadows trailhead to Shadow Lake, Ediza etc.
I went in that way on July 22 and while there is nothing technical or even difficult about that route it has occurred to me that the drainage below Shadow Lake as it drops into the San Joaquin is extremely steep and out of sight from the trail. There are several places where one is tempted to wander out onto the slabs and take a look. What went through my head when I did this was 'Geez if I was to fall here no one would find me for quite awhile'.
Just a thought. Anyone scour that area yet?
And yes tons of people along the way both in and out. I hiked into Ediza and fished my way back...except from the drop off down to the bridge where it crosses the San Joaquin.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Aug 17, 2013 - 12:32am PT
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Might as well throw Volcanic Ridge into the hat too - there is seasonal snow/ ice(?) chutes facing north above Shadow Creek.
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10b4me
Ice climber
Wishes-He-Was-In-Arizona
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Aug 17, 2013 - 01:10am PT
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Tom, that last photo.. that orange thing looks out of place.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Aug 17, 2013 - 01:13am PT
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the orange thing does seem out of place, but it does seem to cast a large shadow as does the rock above it...
there are other rocks in the range with a similar color, but not apparently in that area of Mt Banner
we understand that Matt left his burnt orange tent behind in Mammoth, but I wonder if he might have taken the rain fly with him and perhaps spread it out over a rock, realizing it would be more visible on the snow field??? I'll ask Tony... [Edit: i see from a photo, the rain fly is grey, not orange]
our RED CineX editing program let's us zoom in and out and all around as if we were there in a helicopter with a cart blanch fuel card...wish we could show it to you...
we have been endlessly browsing all around the images of range, and this has been the main thing that jumped out at us so far...
we do seem to have spotted another party on a snow field, three people wearing red, yellow, and green respectively
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mattyj
Mountain climber
Truckee
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Aug 17, 2013 - 02:16am PT
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I'm (note: not climbski2) going in to Ritter / Banner via Ediza tomorrow morning as a 3 day trip. I'm going to try to scope the orange object out through binoculars from the summit of Banner, but I'm not sure I'll be able to make out much more than the photo. If anything looks promising from that perspective, I'll hike out via Garnet in order to take a closer pass.
At this point I feel like there's enough reason for skepticism that it's not worth rerouting the trip to get up close and personal unless I can actually spot something interesting from afar. It's an unlikely location and Cragman passed close by; my instinct, for whatever that's worth, is that I'm better off re-searching the face of Ritter and the cliffs below the SE glacier, even though the odds of a find there are remote. If some last minute info proves otherwise and aerial resurveillance of the area isn't possible, I'll try to monitor the Mammoth HAM repeater when possible and can still make an exit via that route. KJ6LZA.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Aug 17, 2013 - 02:38am PT
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i hope Cragman will chime in here, but it appears from his TR and posted photo of the area that he passed out of sight of the point we are looking at, which is quite a bit out of the way of his path, as well as that of mattyj
someone looking for a snow playground rather than a peak ascent might have been attracted to that NE glacier on Banner
so i agree the image on the glacier looks odd, but is unconfirmed unless perhaps a SAR team or Ed Roski and his SkyTime helo were there
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Aug 17, 2013 - 02:55am PT
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Let the dead bury their own dead.
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Aug 17, 2013 - 03:15am PT
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I've been wondering if he had his ID with him, or was it left at his camp site in town (Shady Rest)?
Reason being, I had a concussion in which I suffered short term (but full) amnesia around twenty or so years ago. It came to mind rather early on (been following the thread from day one) but its such a long shot that it may actually have anything to do with this, so I have been hesitating to say anything and wouldn't want to instill any false hope. But, it is one of the scenarios that has risen, and certainly possible. So, fwiw...
During the 89/90 ski season I took a job at Snow Summit (SS). For background info (relating to the situation) I had, previous to that, spent 8/9 seasons at Mammoth and later a couple at Tahoe (n & s shore).
So, when I regained conscience, after taking a fall one afternoon, at SS (which has clear views of Big Bear Lake) I suppose its not that unusual (like i said, i awoke with total amnesia) that the one and only question that I asked the patrolman that had kindly retrieved one of my skis (it was above me, the other one was below) was, "Is that Lake Tahoe?" Since I had spent more time skiing with views of that lake than at SS/BBL.
He simply gave me a disgusted look, shook his head and skied off. I suppose he thought I was being either incredibly obnoxious, or stupid. I thought it was a particularly appropriate question (didn't dawn on me until later that it could be misconstrued, for whatever reasons).
I mean, I awoke and it was as if I had just dropped out of the sky as a full grown human being with no past. I saw snow, a lake, and then very suddenly I was being handed a ski. I new what all these things were, but had absolutely no idea of, 1) where I was (pretty soon figured I was on a ski slope overlooking a lake). First it was a snow covered hill overlooking a lake, then (not until he handed me the ski) a ski hill. I had absolutely no idea what I was doing there, who I was, and whether or not I new how to ski, like i said, i had skied for close to 15 seasons (also a few in Utah resorts). I thought long and hard as to whether or not just walk down the hill, or step into the bindings and point them downhill. I did the latter and recall coming to the conclusion (after I had linked a few turns) "Well, I guess I know how to ski."
I recall getting to the bottom of the run just to find a lift line, and realizing that I would have to find my way back to the lodge and parking lot since it was not there. I had just checked all my pockets and found nothing (no money, ID - employee or otherwise/not that I was looking for anything in particular) except a Ford car key. I recall thinking, "Well I guess I have a Ford automobile".
My plan was to wait until closing (which I had figured would be at dark, but actually it wasn't, since they had night skiing) and that the parking lot would clear out and I would then check whatever Fords were left to see which one the key worked in.
When I went to get onto the lift I paused to ask the lift operator a question that seemed perfectly logical to me (it was just as off the wall as the "Tahoe question", but I have forgotten it). I recall the same reaction from him, plus he got pissed about me holding up the line on top of the dumb question (was pretty odd, but apropos for someone in my situation trying to piece the situation together, wish I could still remember it). Anyway, I recall coming to the conclusion that I was totally on my own and wasn't going to ask anymore questions from that point on.
The other thing that did suddenly come to me, when I was trying to think of who I was, was my fathers full name, 1st, middle, and last, but nothing else about him (what he looked like, etc), so I guess I didn't have total amnesia. But that was absolutely it for the next two or so hours. I also recall seeing my reflection in a mirror (went in the lodge very briefly) and didn't have a clue who I was looking at.
My only plan (or as far as I was thinking ahead) was find out what car was mine. The thing is, the key wouldn't had worked in any of the cars, Ford or otherwise. I also had a chevie van (that was the key to my Ford truck). I had taken the van and had left that key hidden on it.
Fortunately, my memory came back in a rush around 4pm (fell around 2pm)! I realized where I was, and that I had a job there (prep cook). And the name I had remembered wasn't only my fathers, but also mine (i'm a jr.)!
Not sure, but once I had figured I couldn't find my car (or didn't have one there) I would probably taken the next step and figured out that I couldn't get far in a pair of ski boots (i had no interest in skiing any longer, even if I had stayed in the area, it is pretty much just survival mode). It would have probably seemed perfectly logical to trade the boots for a pair of tennies or shoes with someone there and perhaps the skis for enough money to buy a few meals (they were both top of the line) or if they were burdensome, just ditch them. You are just thinking, "I am at A, I need to get to B." Your not even thinking about C!
Going to the ski patrol (they had already struck out once anyway) or the sheriff, etc, didn't even cross my mind. I didn't think of it as "amnesia". I wasn't fearful or whatever, just simply moving forward. I do think you retain certain aspects of your personality. For instance, i tend to be very independent, and avoid crowds. Fairly comfortable around one or two people though (strangers even), and prefer to hang out/interact with people I know rather than not. But if I didn't know anyone, I would be very aloof , even avoid contact with anyone. I recall listening to people in the lodge talking about everyday things and that seemed very abstract, or of little interest or necesscity. I also remember thinking that I didn't even have a name to tell them, let alone anything to discuss. I think that Matt may have a few similar traits (independent, etc).
Anyway, in that type of scenario, I could very easily picture myself (or Matt, perhaps) passing through Minden, looking a little scruffy & disheleved, and taking life at one hurdle and one day at a time.
As far as an ID with a name and address, 1) i would just have a name that I could tell people if they happened to ask me. It wouldn't have meant anything else. Ditto with the address. I would have simply thought, "Well, I guess I lived there at one time." Perhaps I would have headed in that direction, but could have easily reasoned that it would be of more immediate concern to go or do something else. You just do not think the same. You certainly don't have anything pulling you back or to something you once had or new, because there is nothing.
As far as a cell phone, I would most likely thought. "Oh, I guess I have a phone." And like the car key, perhaps I would have been curious enough to try and get it to work and maybe redial, or whatever (dunno, we didn't have cell phones then). But, it could have been easily discarded or perhaps traded for whatever. You would be talking to someone that you had no clue who they were. You wouldn't even know who to tell them you were, so what difference would it make? Or that was my frame of mind anyway (very difficult to explain). Pass relationships wouldn't have meant anything. They wouldn't have been worth pursuing anymore than someone I had just met on the street (of course they would, I just didn't relate to it that way).
Oh well, this probably isn't much of a help (kind of a lame story, lol)...but it is all I have to offer. It really breaks my heart to look at Matts pic, think of how he had simply awoken to another beautiful eastern sierra morning (in a town where i have done the same thing, again and again, once upon a time) think of his predicament, how something took an abrupt turn in his life (for better or worse), think of all that has been said and done, and think of all those close to him. I hope he is found soon, he will remain in my prayers until then.
edit: much respect for all involved. and hey, it cud be anyone of us, or one of our loved ones.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 17, 2013 - 03:32am PT
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Freaking cool story splitter. Reminds me of a concussion I once got in the backcountry.. had a bit more memory than you did. recognized where I was.. but had no freaking idea how I got there or what happened before I knocked the crap out of my chin with either my knee or skipole.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Aug 17, 2013 - 03:48am PT
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doing some further research on the imagery of the Mt Banner glacier
in one pass there appears to be a person standing and waving at us
in several other passes, there is clearly no one standing there
whoever it is, probably not Matt...
i am not ready to give up on Matt...
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oakgirl
Trad climber
Oakland
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Aug 17, 2013 - 05:43am PT
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I think we should keep in mind that just because he ripped out 30 pgs, it doesn't mean that he had all of them with him. I regularly x-acto pgs out before trips, and I end up with series' of pgs neatly folded in plastic ziplocks, not all of which are with me on a given trip. I'm a 5'2" 110 lb. woman, and I don't want to carry a single extra ounce! I even use thin ziplocks:) I also never go into backcountry without a map, even if I've been there a bunch of times; you never know when you might need to get out a different way than you've gone before.
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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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Aug 17, 2013 - 08:09am PT
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To answer the few questions I actually can...
Two of the group from home that went back to CA to search were the couple that'd been there w him the first week of June. Thy knew his ger and helped authorities on th front; including pointing out gear in Matt's spare tire well of Matts car (the more $$ stuff). So, gear list is accurate: yellow La Sportiva Nepal mountaineering boots, step-in crampons, an ice axe, and his Mountin Hardware South Col Backpack. He had his wallet, cell phone (NOT a smart phone), and digital camera as well.
I rec'd n update from Tony but it's a bit generalized...
"Hi Tiffany,
Finally had a few minutes to give you an update.......I just sent this to the Channel 69 reporter.
...........We spent 3 days searching the Minarets. It is a line of sharp peaks up to about 12,300 ft. They have steep snowfields on both sides and besides Mts Ritter and Banner (searched by SAR) are logical objectives for Matt within this area outside of Mammoth. At this time of year most of the lesser snowfields are gone, but there are still some steep extensive ones. A couple of us worked our way around the west side and climbed a couple of them to check summit registers and get a birds eye view. Others scoured the lower areas and edges of the snowfields.
We had an offer from a group from Pal Alto to do do some high definition video of the area that we can analyze on the ground.
Jill and Andrea did a great job of canvasing town, the forestry office and trailheads talking to people and putting up more posters.
It is clear that Matt's story has spread widely out here and we have had tremendous support here. I was even approached in Denver airport by a well wisher who recognized the significance of my 'Help find Matt' t-shirt.
This is a massive area and the high terrain is very challenging and the rock very uneven with many gullies and areas that are hard to search from any distance.
I am just finishing this email as we wrap things up for now in Mammoth. I spent 2 hours guiding a pilot and cameraman this morning. We got a lot of high definition video that will be processed quickly and then can be reviewed. The search continues.
I will be leaving tomorrow morning to head back to PA with Matt's car and gear.
Bill Green the SAR leader here in Mammoth has continued to be a tremendous help. If the video or anything else gives us a new lead he will pursue it immediately!!!!!
I expect to be home by late Sunday. I will be in touch.
Tony"
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Aug 17, 2013 - 09:33am PT
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"Delhi Dog, interesting that you would mention the drainage of Shadow and that steep drop into the chasm....as we passed it, Doug and I mentioned the same thing. I believe it would be worthy to set up a belay and look into the various spots along that stretch."
Wish I could head back in there to do that but I'm not even close anymore.
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mattyj
Mountain climber
Truckee
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Aug 17, 2013 - 10:50am PT
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Others scoured the lower areas and edges of the snowfields.
I took that to mean the east side glaciers, but it's ambiguously worded.
TheMaster, even if no explicit searching took place, my impression is that people access the saddle from Lake Catherine on a semi-regular basis. Could be wrong about that. A body floating at the surface would hopefully have a reasonable chance of getting seen even if people weren't looking for him.
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