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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I just don't know who to believe in the Rhumbull In The Khumbu.
I'm just glad I swore off the joint a long time ago - waay too many ghosts
there for me.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Meh....
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Lahkpa Sherpa - As alluded by others, the fixing team were venting the frustration of all highly skilled and experienced Sherpa climbers who want to feel more respect from their fellow western colleagues. For years they have quietly suffered and endured arrogance displayed by some western guides and professional climbers.
bhilden - So what you are saying is that you picked three foreign climbers to vent years of frustration by assembling a mob of 100 Sherpas and trying to stone them to death? I guess that about says it all.
I think what he is saying is that the actions of the "three foreign climbers" was the final straw that broke the proverbial camels back.
I have not actually witnessed a camels back being overloaded and suddenly collapsing. But I would imagine that once it had reached a certain point, it wouldn't take very much, perhaps merely a single straw, for it to suddenly explode.
"For years..." THAT "pretty much says it all" for me. You said it yourself, "years of frustration".
I don't believe they sat around and conspired, or planned to do this. The "three" evidently did something which constituted that final straw. Perhaps it got to the point where it amounted to something very trivial on their part, or maybe it was more (dunno). But, once it gets to that point, and you resort to calling somebodies mother names, look out. Especially when your in their territory and there are a lot more of them then there are of you.
Not sure where you live, but if its LA (or any major city) I don't think yer dumb enough to go down to South Central and walk across somebodies lawn and when they call you on it, start calling him and his mother bad names, especially when all of his homies are in the immediate vicinity...pretty fuking stoopid if ya ask me.
It paints a fairly clear picture to me. Like I said, ya have to look at the big picture.
In a nut shell: Evidently some peeps have been cutting across the homies front lawn for years and the homies finally got really pissed off about it, eh?
Dood, I'm getting a headache, and I'm wondering wtf I even bother to follow threads like these, let alone attempt to contribute something positive, or whatever, to them. ~Later.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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The whole country of Nepal is in an uproar and has been for ten years as they struggle from feudalism to modernism.
Here are some of the stories from today's papers - nepalnews.com and thehimalyantimes.com
-The first point is that this is not a country operating under western standards or even its own standards of the past.
-The second point is this is the background which the Sherpas have become accustomed to. Only by mass protests have things changed.
Curfew imposed in Martadi as police, locals clash.
Limbuwan State Council postpones general strike in East
Protests against Lokman's appointment intensify
CPN-MAoist says that it does not have any weapons
Mob torches Bajura CDO's House
Chakkajam enforced against CC decision
The locals in Martadi are demonstrating because the budget for a local bridge and road construction project was shelved by officials after the locals in another town demonstrated because it was not placed in their village even though they had a new bridge. The village without a bridge then burned down the house of the Chief District Officer to protest his decision against any bridge project.
The Limbu tribe in the far east of the country is demonstrating to have their own autonomous territory (many favor independence).
The Maoists are saying they do not have any of their former weapons which were all supposed to have been handed over to the UN sponsored buyback program to end the insurgency, and that the weapons they do have were purchased separately for the security personnel protecting their leaders as allowed under the new government.
People are protesting Lokman Singh Karki's appointment as the chief commissioner of the Commission for Investigation of Abuse of Authority (CIAA) since he was part of the former king's regime and tried to suppress the street demonstrations which brought down the former king. The Supreme Court denied a writ to invalidate his nomination and that sparked the demos. A chakkajam is when vehicular traffic is obstructed by a mass of human beings standing in the road.
All of this is going on in one day as the country struggles to free itself of the vested interests who have exploited the place for the past 250 years. Of course we would rather not think of ourselves and our sport as looking like part of the old feudal order but the style in which climbers on Everest live is even more luxurious than the former rajas and the Sherpas evidently think some of the climbers behave like entitled aristocracy. It's just a shame that all of this was vented on the three guys it was, who out of naivete and ego, did the final thing that set the Sherpas off. There were so many other more deserving candidates.
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jstan
climber
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Since I know nothing about mountains I can post here. What is it an alpinist would call success? Is it the chance to feel good about what one has done? Assume that, for argument's sake. Then this past thing has been a massive failure for Ueli, Simone and Jon. And not because of anything they actually did. It all just came out a bummer. Going forward can anyone consider the Big E anything but a risky venture. A quagmire?
Even if you consider K2, do you gain much? It is all incrementals.
Does what Simpson/Yates did in Chile show the path to the future? 60 degree unstable snow and atrocious weather. Who knows? It is all a matter of what one can get excited about. It does take a lot of excitement for one to do this kind of sh#t.
I dunno. An opinion. If after a half dozen years of work, one could feel they have made any contribution at all to sorting out the US's healthcare disaster- wouldn't that be a killer success?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Care to make a wager as to which gets straightened out first - the Everest climbing scene or the U.S. health care system? I'd say odds are 50/50.
Speaking of which, they are going to try to install two fixed ropes on the Hillary Step this year to relieve congestion. The descent will involve a short rappell which sounds like a recipe for disaster given the hypoxic state of most people descending.
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WBraun
climber
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Stupid Americans should go to the Himalayan and become sherpas.
Carry shoulder bruising loads with no oxygen and only get one carrot for dinner.
Then have some dude call ya a m'fuker.
I'd be throwing rocks at you too ya stoopid sh!t.
Instead these stoopid Americans think sherpa is a saint.
NO you stoopid Americans they ain't no saints.
Everyone has a breaking point and gets pissed and loses it.
Tough sh!t Americans.
Now you know better than go run your stoopid mouths or else you'll get rock on yer stoopid head .......
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Sorry Jan im confident the Sherpas will get more accomplished than
Congress.like getting rich people up Everest.And then getting them down.
The whole E business is what it is. Anyone here bad mouths the Sherpas is a fukin pussy.
Like Ron said eliminating the western guide companies would be nice but theres too many hands in the pot at this point and as Jan has pointed out the country is unstable ,but not for tourist dollars.
So to rally for change because of a slap and a kick by Nepalise standards is absurd.
And ill tell you what, anyone comes on my jobsite and makes things dangerous for me and my crew and then tells me what he wants to do to my
mom and then tells me he wants to fight? Guess What? Im gonna fuk u up.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Those Sherpas have it easy. They should be happy they're not humping loads
into Les Montagnes de la Lune.
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Yea, they got it easy in Nepal...
Port - there is no lack of stoopid and lazy ^ Americans over there, bro!
;)
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Stupid Americans should go to the Himalayan and become sherpas.
Carry shoulder bruising loads with no oxygen and only get one carrot for dinner.
Then have some dude call ya a m'fuker.
I'd be throwing rocks at you too ya stoopid sh!t.
Instead these stoopid Americans think sherpa is a saint.
NO you stoopid Americans they ain't no saints.
Everyone has a breaking point and gets pissed and loses it.
Tough sh!t Americans.
Now you know better than go run your stoopid mouths or else you'll get rock on yer stoopid head .......
Only none of them were American...
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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The notion that guided climbing on the upper reaches of Everest is a pageant of unsteady porkers, sugar daddies, diamond codgers and bourgee glacier bimbo isn't really accurate.
Many clients have considerable mountaineering experience. Most of the wierdies and unskilled drop out or are halted before getting to the South Col...many before or in the course of passing through the icefall.
...not to say you won't encounter an occasional newbie or eccentric high up
For many zealous mountaineers, participating in a guided pilgrimage is the only plausible opportunity to the high Himalayan avenue. Saving money for years, borrowing or plundering their life savings...many justify the personal expense...
Perhaps it's not an idyllic quest...but it's more lyrical adventure than ruinning up Snow King Mountain or purist chitchat from a table at Dornan's...
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kolos
climber
Hungary
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Stewart Johnson
And ill tell you what, anyone comes on my jobsite and makes things dangerous for me and my crew and then tells me what he wants to do to my
mom and then tells me he wants to fight? Guess What? Im gonna fuk u up.
Wow. This is really a new level of the "limping comparisons"...
You mean that the Sherpas own the mountain and that part was their exclusive "jobsite"?
As far as I know this part of the Everest is owned by the state of Nepal. The state gives permits to climb the mountain. The permits have no hierarchy, they are equal. The Sherpas were there on the face because a couple of commercial expedition hired them to fix the rope for that part. In this sense the face was really their jobsite, but actually a shared one which can be used for others as well. Could you define what kind of privileges had the Sherpas (or with other words: the commercial expedition which hired the Sherpas to fix) compared to the other team???
Have you addressed the topic what lead to the swear words?
Actually Moro, Steck and Griffith did what they were allowed completely. They climbed - maybe too well to handle for the Sherpa leader's ego. Or maybe the leader had a completely distorted picture of climbing and did not realize that this kind of situation is nothing unusual and happens lot of times all around the world when people climb on the same mountain. In one of my posts I asked somebody to list the big dangers caused by the Western climbers and compare them to the dangers which the commercial expeditions and clients mean for the Sherpas. Unsurprisingly there was no answer.
You mentioned multiple times the "elitist attitude" in previous posts. When asked to elaborate on this topic you did not really answer (maybe I am wrong). Please could you define what was elitist in the actions of the 3 climbers? They _climbed_. Or on this part of the Everest the only allowed way to move on the mountain is to push the jumar upward on a rope?
I do not want to question the general frustration, bad treatment of the Sherpas nowadays or in the past decades. This has to be fixed (I also not against the idea to have only local guiding companies). But to blame on the 3 Western climbers for this incident or state that they got what they deserved is completely unfair.
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orangesporanges
Social climber
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Jennie - by real standards, most Westerners on the Yak Route are noobs
Stewart J (and Jan)
Support for the Sherpa community is deserved. But Sherpa have no-more right than those who most respect that mountain. Ueli and Co totally respected that mountain. Their 'style' has a right to exist.
Jan - linking this incident to national unrest is un-founded. The Sherpa guiding on the mountain are there to make seasonal money. Many Sherpa (including friends) have become accustomed to a sense of paid-work entitlement. Climbers carrying their own loads - many Sherpa get mighty pissed. Cook your own food - they get mighty pissed. The Sherpa are having a hard time accepting that their are climbers who do not want nor need large teams of Sherpa to help them to the roof and down again. Such an attitude is not linked to national unrest.
Ueli, Moro and Griffith climb near everyday. Will continue to do so, whether it makes or costs them money. Their 'style' pursues a more elegant approach to the mountain which is more in-keeping with the spirit in which mountains ought to be climbed.
Meanwhile, well known climbers and guiding companies are staying pretty quiet on the whole affair - they worry that supporting Ueli and admonishing the Sherpa will make things harder for themselves.
Anyone remember when Guy Cotter (Adventure Consultants) wrote glowingly about Musharraf the dictator in Pakistan - it smoothed visas and permits for his company quite nicely.
And when the Benegas brothers spoke-out? Getting back to Everest was not easy for them.
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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im simply stating my opinion kolos. When your one of the best climbers on the planet it does make you elite.
And yes i believe it was a jobsite.
Its a pity the elite team couldnt climb somewhere else than the tourist route,for Everests sake, to make their eliteness more elite!
And yes four holidays to Everest and one vacation
to K2 i am entitled to my opinion!
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raymond phule
climber
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Its a pity the elite team couldnt climb somewhere else than the tourist route
They climbed on the tourist route for acclimatization before they where supposed to make a first ascent (or at least another route). Are there other good places for acclimatization around the Everest base camp?
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raymond phule
climber
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One thing I really don't understand is that 3 climbers crossing the rope at a belay during rope fixing is supposed to be a dangerous act because of the risk of ice falling on the roped up climbers. What about the risk when the ropes have been fixed and hundreds of climbers walk up and down the face? That risk must be much larger.
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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bhilden - So let me get this straight. You don't quote all of my original post, instead just the second to last line and then resort to name calling.
Sorry about that. I not savvy enough when it comes to computers to know how to cut and paste (i've noticed that yer pretty good at it, kudos) and I'm a two finger typist, so I take shortcuts. Regardless, my apologies.
And, regarding the name calling, I suspect you were referring to this...
splitter - How can you be so obtuse, is it deliberate?
I wasn't necessarily thinking of you specifically, just sort of frustrated with a number of people here after following this thread from the beginning. I guess you were kinda "the final straw that broke the proverbial camels back". And I resorted to name calling. Fortunately I didn't bring your mother into it. I guess I wouldn't make a very good Sherpa. Might as well tear up my Sherpa application for the 'Sleds Over Everest' (SOE) team that I was gonna send to Ron. I'm devastated. ;)
Seriously though, it was uncalled for and I'm sorry I said it. I apologize.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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No doubt the Sherpas get offended by the American and Euro gumbies treating them like servants. Maybe these 3 were not gumbies but they were on the cables route. I'd be in favor of fixed lines or a via ferrara on the Hillary Step. It's just a tourist trade route, who cares.
I was in Nepal ten years ago but the culture is a mystery to me. The maoists seemed like more of a symbolic insurgency than a real one. Then when people broke into the palace and killed the whole royal family, thing were back to normal in no time. Maybe I was clueless about the real state of unrest there, it's not visible.
It would be easy for them to pass laws requiring nepali guides, make it really difficult for foreign guides to be certified there, and laws to prevent the exploitation of these poor people. As for the nepalis being too poor to hire lawyers, I'd love to sue some rich as#@&%e for killing his third world servant on his $100,000 vacation. That's the kind of case it would have to be, though, a very serious one and a defendant with deep pockets. In general the sherpas best bet is to pass laws protecting their work environment and requiring Nepali guides for everyone on Everest, or at least on the Yak route.
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