Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
|
|
Tony,
The difference between paranormal and supernatural is the same as the difference between creationism and intelligent design.
In each, one term is just packaged better, ad hoc, to imply some scientific valididty.
If "paranormal" = "not scientifically explainable", it does NOT equal "special powers" anymore than UFO = Aliens.
|
|
FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
|
|
tony when you or i start saying what others (in this case atheist ) believe we are usually wrong. most everything you were saying was right on but that thing about atheist not even in the ballpark. atheist are all very different people.
really wbraun china never had the waring states - the chinese emperors never build huge cities will the average person starved. japan never had wars- ruthless leaders. please people are people.
|
|
rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
|
|
its funny the bear does the same thing to anything it wants to eat no matter what they believe.
And we all hope to be saved.
if not john wayne wouldn't have a job.
I seem to remember lions, and tigers, and bears (oh my!) eating LOTS of Christians in the Coliseum, back in the day.
So, I think it's safe to say that their prayers went unanswered.
|
|
rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
|
|
"Now, lest anyone be confused, let me state that Hawking strenuously denies charges that he is an atheist. When he is accused of that he really gets angry and says that such assertions are not true at all. He is an agnostic or deist or something more along those lines. He's certainly not an atheist and not even very sympathetic to atheism."
http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9501/bigbang2.html |
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
If "paranormal" = "not scientifically explainable", it does NOT equal "special powers" anymore than UFO = Aliens.
then you explain it all, rrradam. stick your neck out so we can cut your head off.
|
|
rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
|
|
Ed did... You just missed it.
Have someone push down on your arm for 1 minute, while you are trying to raise it. When they stop, your arm will feel like it is "levitating" or "remarkable light". Is this paranormal? Nope. Just another process of the mind, that leads to a perception that your arm is "levitating" or "remarkably light".
Rhythmic movements can have a hypnotic effect, and cause the mind to focus on one thing. As Ed suggested, people are focussed on "being surprised", and sometimes, they are.
And again... You want me to explain something you take as fact, but yet will not perform yourself and report back... Even when you can easily do so.
Point being... You should perform this, and if it doesn;t work exactly as stated, then report back on WHY you think it didn;t work.
The mindis pretty easy to fool, and/or lead down the wrong path...
Have someone say, out load: "Silk, silk, silk."
Then ask them what cows drink, and 7 out of 10 will say "milk", but they drink "water".
(For the nit pickers... Calves drink milk, as do all mammalian infants and young juviniles, cows drink water.)
Seriously... Try it. Do it now, if you have people around, then report back.
|
|
FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
|
|
I just told tony it is not nice to talk for others - so I'm going to put words in his mouth. I'm sure tony was talking metaphorically.
but if he was not - i take back what i said earlier.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Fact #23813
Levitation exists and has been proven ...
In Yosemite Valley "wide" climbing we have been using "levitation" for years.
YOU HAVE BEEN OWNED
|
|
FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
|
|
radical----- I read it from his hand - wow or should i say mouth. if that makes me schizo cool at least i didn't do a schizo rant like you just did.
|
|
rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
|
|
Damn... Looking at that pic reminds me--- I'd take the Pope over Hawking in a fist fight.
|
|
FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
|
|
do your own home work. i'm not doing it for you.
by the way that mouth works well enough. maybe you have not noticed he is a prolific writer.
|
|
FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
|
|
cool i like big toys
just think of the traverse in there
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
"levitating" your own arm in response to a release of pressure is quite different from lifting a 40-50 lb. weight with your arm in a manner of least mechanical advantage. i don't think ed tried this parlor trick as prescribed.
the hypnotic effect is important, yes, but so is the manner in which the actions are prescribed. moss's formula would indicate a genuine levitation. i don't think ed did more than our construction crew did with glue-lams.
frumy is right--there are many kinds of atheists. there are also many kinds of paranormalists, scientists and supernaturalists, and every one of them is a believer in something. defining terms to a point of common acceptance is no small part of a discussion like this. if there's more than one dictionary definition, no fair choosing the one that suits you best. when a definition is in question, you have to get agreement from the others before the discussion can go forward.
randy leavitt tried to call his arm and leg jamming of the paisano overhang "leavittation", but i don't think the name stuck. shameless self-promotion. the route is still rated 5.12. can we hypnotize ourselves into making it feel like a 5.2? try it and report back. :-)
there was a famous fighting pope, julius ii, who fought everyone around him in the interest of the vatican state. he is best known for commissioning michelangelo for the sistine chapel ceiling, but in his time he was out there generaling his forces and rubbing the "thou shalt not kill" line out of his bible. subsequently, the vatican retreated to its current 110-acre plot in the city of rome. alas, did they all die in vain?
fattrad, the element lead is not believed to have existed until well after the big bang, which sort of conflicts with your hot stuff off the science wire. hydrogen was the first element, the simplest of atoms, coalescing from the sub-subatomic as the known universe evolved. then gravity led to the genesis of early stars, in which the fusion of hydrogen produced helium, the second element to exist. from there on, elements were supposedly produced through successive generations of supernovae. our solar system is thought to be the result of a fourth- or fifth-generation supernova. each generation produced heavier and heavier elements.
by that scenario (which i'm sure can be blown away by any random genius who comes along), lead, with an atomic number of 82 and an atomic weight of 207, didn't show up until relatively recently, and its heavy nucleus surely wouldn't have existed at the beginning.
if all this is wrong, fattrad, i really, really want you, and not ed hartouni, to connect a few dots for me. you're great at throwing stuff around you don't understand the first thing about and then trying to claim credit for republicans.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
andy leavitt tried to call his arm and leg jamming of the paisano overhang "leavittation", but i don't think the name stuck. shameless self-promotion. the route is still rated 5.12. can we hypnotize ourselves into making it feel like a 5.2? try it and report back. :-)
it is still called that, Tony maybe you should update your climbing skillz.... to the 1990s... and when you get it right, it is like 5.2, trust me on this, I've done it...
...of course you could too, but why waste the energy doing the hard work when you can just believe in human witness, unless you want to say I'm telling a lie!
|
|
rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
|
|
Tony: fattrad, the element lead is not believed to have existed until well after the big bang, which sort of conflicts with your hot stuff off the science wire. hydrogen was the first element, the simplest of atoms, coalescing from the sub-subatomic as the known universe evolved. then gravity led to the genesis of early stars, in which the fusion of hydrogen produced helium, the second element to exist. from there on, elements were supposedly produced through successive generations of supernovae. our solar system is thought to be the result of a fourth- or fifth-generation supernova. each generation produced heavier and heavier elements.
1. Protons and neutrons formed the nuclei of atoms up to lithium and berylium, thus including helium... Granted other processes make helium, but the vast bulk of Helium in the universe was made at about the first 3 minutes after the Big Bang.
2. Most stars fuse elements up to Iron, then supervovae make larger atoms.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!