The Massive Ark on the Moon (very OT, but of high interest)

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Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 02:49pm PT
My fellow Neanderthal brothers and sisters, can we just get along and talk about substance please?

It's so easy even Supertopian Neanderthals can do it!
scuffy b

climber
Where only the cracks are dry
May 7, 2010 - 03:12pm PT
I think that golf ball on Mars looks more like Kitty litter than snow.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 7, 2010 - 03:37pm PT
and found all very lacking and distorted

This is exactly the way I feel about your arguments for shadow governments and spaceships on the moon.
WBraun

climber
May 7, 2010 - 03:55pm PT
Pate

Nothing you say here nor anything you do from here on
will change that you've been owned .....
Footloose

Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
May 7, 2010 - 03:59pm PT
Port- Hey, I like the way you think!
I remember your Keeler post on my Mithral
Dihedral TR. You interested in any CTC in the
Whitney Portal area this season? maybe a
repeat on the Needle? PM if interested.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=945823

FL
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 05:41pm PT
"and found all very lacking and distorted"

This is exactly the way I feel about your arguments for shadow governments and spaceships on the moon.

Port,

Well, please take it up with all the insiders coming out and saying so that come from government, and military from around the world and as well as here in the US.

I gave you resources:

Dr. Greer's: The Disclosure Project

Out of the Blue


Truth sometimes is stranger than fiction.



I'm sure this bends your reality, your world view, and difficult to hear and take. It was for me too when I first learned about it. I understand. It will take some time . . .
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 05:52pm PT
Pate,

Have you ever looked into getting some professional therapy, some professional help? Seriously, like anger management?
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 7, 2010 - 05:59pm PT
Klimmer, you sound kinda condescending. And for me, its not about time but more evidence. I am trying to keep an open mind. Heres a list of people that support the moon hoax conspiracies. Their methods resemble some of yours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_conspiracy_theories#Hoax_proponents_and_their_proposals

Hoax proponents and their proposals:

* Bill Kaysing (1922-2005) an ex-employee of Rocketdyne,[26] the company which built the F-1 engines used on the Saturn V rocket. Kaysing was not technically qualified, and worked at Rocketdyne as a librarian. Kaysing's self published book, We Never Went to the Moon: America's Thirty Billion Dollar Swindle,[15][27] made many allegations, effectively beginning the discussion of the Moon landings possibly being hoaxed. NASA and others have debunked the claims made in the book.
* Bart Sibrel, a filmmaker, produced and directed four films for his company AFTH,[28] including a film in 2001 called A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon,[29] examining the evidence of a hoax. Again, the arguments put forward therein have been debunked by numerous sources, including Svector's video series Lunar Legacy,[30] which disproves the documentary's primary argument that the Apollo crew faked their distance from the Earth command module, while in low orbit. Sibrel believes that the effect on the shot covered in his film was produced through the use of a transparency of the Earth. Sibrel was also famously punched in the face by Buzz Aldrin[31] while accusing the former astronaut of being "a coward, and a liar, and a thief." Sibrel attempted to press charges against Aldrin but the case was thrown out of court when the judge ruled that Aldrin was within his rights given Sibrel's invasive and aggressive behavior.[32]
* William L. Brian, a nuclear engineer who self-published a book in 1982 called Moongate: Suppressed Findings of the U.S. Space Program, in which he disputes the Moon's surface gravity.
* David Percy, TV producer and expert in audiovisual technologies and member of the Royal Photographic Society, is co-author, along with Mary Bennett of Dark Moon: Apollo and the Whistle-Blowers (ISBN 1-898541-10-8) and co-producer of What Happened On the Moon?. He is the main proponent of the "whistle-blower" accusation, arguing that the errors in the NASA photos in particular are so obvious that they are evidence that insiders are trying to 'blow the whistle' on the hoax by deliberately inserting errors that they know will be seen.[33]
* Ralph Rene - An inventor and 'self taught' engineering buff. Author of NASA Mooned America (second edition OCLC 36317224).
* Charles T. Hawkins - Author of How America Faked the Moon Landings,
* James M. Collier (d. 1998) - American journalist and author, producer of the video Was It Only a Paper Moon? in 1997.
* Jack White - American photo historian known for his attempt to prove forgery in photos related to the assassination of U.S. President John F. Kennedy.
* Marcus Allen - British publisher of Nexus who said that photographs of the lander would not prove that the U.S. put men on the Moon. "Getting to the Moon really isn't much of a problem - the Russians did that in 1959 - the big problem is getting people there."[34]
* Aron Ranen - Directed Did We Go?, co-produced with Benjamin Britton and selected for the 2000 "New Documentary Series" Museum of Modern Art, NYC, the 2000 Dallas Video Festival Awards and the 2001 Digital Video Underground Festival in San Francisco. He received a Golden Cine Eagle and two fellowships from the National Endowment for Arts. Ranen states in Did We Go? "at this point right now I'm about 75% believing we went". On July 20, 2009, Ranen appeared on Geraldo at Large to argue that no one has landed on the moon.
* Clyde Lewis - Radio talk show host.[35]
* David Groves - Works for Quantech Image Processing and worked on some of the NASA photos. Notably he has examined the photo of Aldrin emerging from the LM. He said he can pinpoint the exact point at which an artificial light was used. Using the focal length of the camera's lens and an actual boot, he has calculated, using ray-tracing, that the artificial light source is between 24 to 36 centimetres (9.4 to 14 in) to the right of the camera.[36] This corresponds with the sunlit part of Armstrong's spacesuit.[37]
* Yuri Mukhin - Russian opposition politician, publicist and writer and author of the book The Moon affair of the USA (2006) in which he denies all Moon landing evidence and accuses the U.S. establishment of plundering the money paid by the American tax payers for the Moon program and the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and some Soviet scientists for helping NASA commit the hoax without being denounced.[38]
* Alexander Popov - Russian doctor of physical-mathematical sciences and author of the book Americans on the Moon - a great breakthrough or a space affair? (Moscow, 2009, ISBN 978-5-9533-3315-3) in which he aims to prove that Saturn V was in fact a camouflaged Saturn 1B[39] and denies all Moon landing evidence.[40]
* Stanislav Pokrovsky - Russian candidate of technical sciences and General Director of a scientific-manufacturing enterprise Project-D-MSK who calculated that the real speed of the Saturn V rocket at S-IC staging time was only half of what was declared. His analysis appears to assume that the solid rocket plumes from the ullage and retro rockets on the two stages came to an instant halt in the surrounding air so they can be used to estimate the velocity of the rocket. He ignored high altitude winds and the altitude at staging, 67 km, where air is about 1/10,000 as dense as at sea level, and claimed that only a loop around the Moon was possible, not a manned landing on the Moon with return to the Earth. He also determined the reason for this - problems with the Inconel superalloy used in the F-1 engine.[41][42][43]

scuffy b

climber
Where only the cracks are dry
May 7, 2010 - 06:07pm PT
Paet and Klimer,
Professional help is the dabbest. Therapists rool.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 7, 2010 - 06:35pm PT
First. F*ck off Rox, If you had read all of my posts you might understand my argument. But because you didn't, Ill spell it out for you.

I KNOW that you and Klimmer don't buy into the Moon Hoax, you retard. And I'm trying to understand why you believe one conspiracy and not the other. I'm pointing out that the methods of those who "investigate" the moon hoax are very similar to those that klimmer uses. The moon "hoaxers" also believe in a very similar shadow government, just like you. So why don't you believe in it?.....And THOSE reasons are the same reasons I don't buy into YOUR bullsh*t.


Is it clear enough for your simple mind? maybe you should THINK before you get angry.

Similarities:

shadow governments control the world
Youtube videos are considered solid evidence
the work of amateur photo enhancement is considered sufficient
The moon hoax can be found in biblical prophecy


.....sounds familiar?

http://www.moonmovie.com/moonmovie/default.asp
scuffy b

climber
Where only the cracks are dry
May 7, 2010 - 07:05pm PT
Are the moon landing and the moon landing hoax BOTH revealed by Bible
Code?
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 07:12pm PT
Port,

OK, I get more where you are coming from.

The Moon hoaxers believe in a shadow government, and those who believe UFOs/Aliens etc. also think there is a shadow government involved in hiding evidence and are involved with the UFO cover-up.

Well, first of all we either went to the Moon or we didn't, regardless of a shadow government. The fact that both may subscribe to the idea that there are entities of government that don't always tell the truth is besides the point. Lack of trust in governments is a whole different issue. Both sides might agree about that, but once again we either went to the Moon or we didn't. The physical evidence says we did.

If anyone had a doubt, then the LRO images has closed the door on that arguement, as well as the 380kg of Moon rocks we have brought back. The geochemistry of the Moon rocks can not be replicated here on Earth, not even in the finest labs. It can not be faked. The Moon meteorites we find on Earth match up perfectly with the geochemistry of the Moon rocks. We can go on and on. The evidence that we went to the Moon is overwhelming and empirical.

Besides, Buzz wouldn't get so upset about it if we didn't.

Lol.


I'm at school so I can't look up these youtube videos:

Someone needs to track-down the video of John Glenn on the TV show "Frazer" going on about Aliens and UFOs. That was a very funny episode, but truth is sometimes disclosed and disguised in humor. I would like to watch that episode again.


Edit:

Ok, here is the script of that show . . .
http://www.tv.com/frasier/docu.drama/episode/26491/summary.html

Glenn: Back in those glory days, I was very uncomfortable when they... asked us to say things that I didn't want to say, and deny other things... (They cut to Frasier and Roz continuing to argue then they cut back to Glenn) Some people ask, you know, "were you alone out there?" And we never gave the real answer, and yet we've seen things out there, strange things... (They back to Frasier and Roz arguing and then back to Glenn) But we know what we saw out there, and we couldn't really say anything, and the bosses were scared of this, they were afraid of "War of the Worlds" type-stuff, and about panic in the streets, and so we had to keep quiet, and now we only see these things in our - well, in our nightmares, or maybe in-in the movies, and some of them are pretty close to being the truth...



Also there is a very cryptic video of Neil Armstrong giving a public speech about truth having "protective" layers when he was talking to a group of school children. That is a very interesting cryptic speech.

Edit:
Neil Armstrong - speech (Nasa Lies)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQ3U-B95es&feature=related



These guys know. They want to say it, and they do in their own ways, bit by bit. The powers that be have told them not to, but they rebel and shed truth at times.

Hey, some astronauts just come out and say it. They don't care what the powers that be have told them not to say. I admire that. Truth. Guts. Bravery.


New finds for me . . . these are must watches!

N.A.S.A. Astronaut Edgar Mitchell Admitts To Alien Contact & Life On Other Planets 1 Of 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgoi3i9AgbU&feature=related
N.A.S.A. Astronaut Edgar Mitchell Admitts To Alien Contact & Life On Other Planets 2 Of 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0pxPpd5AVU&NR=1
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2010 - 10:29am PT
Must see and hear the last videos with Astronaut PhD Edgar Mitchell!


I would like to hear what the doubters and debunkers have to say about this!

monolith

climber
Berkeley, CA
May 8, 2010 - 10:43am PT
Ed Mitchel also thinks he can heal cancer from a distance, and a 'cabal of insiders' in the US government were studying alien bodies.

Awesome source Klimmer.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2010 - 11:24am PT
Pate,

Geeee. Teachers can't have their own lives now? We must all stay in our classrooms, at all hours, and must sleep on the an Army cot in the backroom, huh? And when we are not, we better be grading . . .

I'm at school early, and I'm at school until late often (I was at school last night until 9pm, rarely do I try to do that though, finish the work and try not to bring it home).

My posts are usually before school and after school. When they occur during school, it occurs during my prep period or at lunch normally. Sometimes I can slip in a short post if the students are on a test. It is just another web-browser screen open on the computer that I have to or need to use often for many things. You'll note that I do not post on all threads, just a few. What interests me the most at the moment.

Teachers are good multi-taskers: Teaching, grading, answering emails, working with students, working with collegues, answering questions, and yes sometimes a word or 2 on our favorite forum. It is called adult interaction. Well, usually it is adult interaction. Sometimes it is no different here on ST than what I witness regarding how students interact with one another, total disrespect.

Sadly, society is modeled here on ST with all too much reality. It would be nice to see ST return to a civil discourse, with respect. We don't have to agree on anything, but we should be able to relate and follow the Golden Rule, treat others as you would have others treat you. Jesus said that.

I know that is a concept that is foreign and alien to you Pate. But there is always hope. But not much, it is slipping away fast regarding your unethical poor and abussive behavior.

Shouldn't you be working or studying or doing homework when you constantly post Pate? Perhaps you are independantly wealthy and out and about going wire-less and running your laptop off off a portable Solar panel in between climbs?


Sounds like you are bothered by it all. Sad really.


You hide this crap from your family, friends, co workers, and spew it online in a secret format.

I do?

No, I do not talk about this stuff with my students. I know my place. I know my position of authority and I do not violate the seperation of Church and State. I do make them critical thinkers. We do not know everything. Your mind is like a parachute, it works best when open. Look at all sides.

Wow, I hide this from my family? No, I do not. My wife and I were at the 50 Ann. of Rosewell just to check it out. My family and I have driven the Extra-Terrstrial Highway in Nevada and have driven up to the gate of Area 51, but of course no further. They will shoot. They post it clear as day. We even took pictures.

I hide this stuff from my friends? No, I do not. Yes, sometimes I get ribbed by them. But not mean and spite-ful.

And yes, there are some collegues whom I can talk about this stuff with openly. They have faith, and they also know our government doesn't always speak the truth. People do think for themselves. Apparently you do not.

Sounds like you are threatened by open and free thought. Sorry to hear that.

ST is a secret Forum? Geeees. No wonder I get so much flack here. My bad? I thought this was a public forum. Wow, it all makes sense now (lol). You must be an official "Men-in-Black" and on the government pay-roll. Do you get medical and dental with your government health care? Just wondering ...
enjoimx

Big Wall climber
SLO Cal
May 8, 2010 - 02:01pm PT
Klimmer, thanks. Information is never a bad thing. We can make our own decisions based on the evidence.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 8, 2010 - 02:39pm PT
All you need are people with manners and decency

And then.....


I guess in the orphanage you were raised in they couldn't use corporal punishment



You should have had your face slapped off


Bob Fellner

Trad climber
Carrboro, N. Carolina
May 8, 2010 - 07:28pm PT
Pate, you are a trolls troll, bravo man... you have perfected the art of pissing these guys off but simultaneously keeping them on the hook.

Any of you trying to combine science with religion is undertaking a fools proposition. Science is based on formulation of a hypothesis, planning of experiments to prove it, reformulation of the hypothesis based on the results and repeat... All major religions, like every other fairy tale, are based on myth and mysticism and inherently cannot be proven true only proven false and proving a negative is impossible.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 8, 2010 - 08:33pm PT
Science is a systematic enterprise of gathering knowledge about the world and organizing and condensing that knowledge into testable laws and theories.

Religion is a system of thought, feeling, and action....a frame of reference by which individuals may relate to their universe.

Science is a PROCESS of discovery.

Religion is a CODE of behavior by which individuals may judge the personal and social consequences of their actions.
Phantom X

Trad climber
Honeycomb Hideout
May 8, 2010 - 09:37pm PT
I heard somewhere, I think on the internet, that the moon is actually square.
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